# It wasn’t a coup
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407 "2021-01-13T05:29:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/1 "2021-01-13T05:29:25Z")
It just was not.
I am very Liberal. I am pissed off at what happened, as everyone in the nation should also be, regardless of party.
But this was not an attempt at a takeover of government.
It just was not.
Hang the current GOP for their role in what happened, which was bad enough. But the coup nonsense embarrasses us and detracts from real crimes and real threats.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/2 "2021-01-13T05:32:26Z")
I agree, this was a motley bunch of disorganized rabble storming the Capitol but most not knowing what to do once inside. Many of them even obeyed the velvet ropes, like tourists - they probably hadn’t even expected they’d be able to breach the Capitol in the first place. Like what the Joker says about a dog chasing a car; what’s he going to do if he caught one?
A _ **real** _ coup is well-planned and involves generals, assassinations, pre-planned announcements to the populace about the new government, etc.
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### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/3 "2021-01-13T05:40:06Z")
Yes and no.
Those people we saw in the video footage… _if_ they had ended up inside Congressional space, face to face with Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi and so on and so forth, I believe they would have egged each other on, the loudest and most emphatically nutty ones setting the agenda, and we’d have some dead politicians and a shitload of traumatized ones and a serious Constitutional crisis on our hands.
But yeah it wasn’t planned coherently, and the folks who had some notion of “what we do next” had not expected to get as far as they got and were surprised to find themselves there.
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/4 "2021-01-13T05:47:55Z")
The fact that it was a _stupid_ coup attempt doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup attempt. A self-coup or _autogolpe_.
> **[Self-coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
>
> A self-coup, also called autocoup (from the Spanish: autogolpe), is a form of coup d'état in which a nation's head, having come to power through legal means, tries to stay in power through illegal means. The leader may dissolve or render powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assume extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts, and ...
The key feature was that Trump exploited his position so that people loyal to him personally had sufficient influence in the military, law enforcement etc. that they managed to get security stood down around the Capitol. This is the most chilling thing, not the crowd of chumps on the front lines. Those expendable fools are always going to fall apart if met by professional well trained security forces. But when the loyalty of the security forces themselves is in question, that’s when it becomes very frightening, and that’s why we _must_ consider this a coup attempt.
At this uncertain stage, the conspiracy among pro-Trump elements in the security forces wasn’t well organized or fully committed, and it was probably largely omission rather than commission, with a veneer of deniability. It will be hard to distinguish incompetence from sedition. But it’s this qualitative feature that for me raises this from just a rabble of insurrectionists to an actual coup attempt. And the loyalty of the security forces is what we really need to be worried about if another more competent Republican president of this ilk ever gets elected.
> **[Self-coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
>
> A self-coup, also called autocoup (from the Spanish: autogolpe), is a form of coup d'état in which a nation's head, having come to power through legal means, tries to stay in power through illegal means. The leader may dissolve or render powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assume extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts, and ...
> **[Opinion | Yes, It Was a Coup Attempt. Here’s Why.](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/11/capitol-riot-self-coup-trump-fiona-hill-457549)**
>
> What Trump tried is called a “self-coup,” and he did it in slow motion and in plain sight.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/5 "2021-01-13T05:49:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> A _ **real** _ coup is well-planned and involves generals, assassinations, pre-planned announcements to the populace about the new government, etc.
No, that’s a _successful_ coup. A coup can be real, and include none of those elements, because the people organizing the coup are incompetent.
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/6 "2021-01-13T05:52:38Z")
This is also very relevant, it has been posted several times before, it’s well worth reading. I think perhaps it’s too pessimistic, but we need the harsh wake-up call as to what _can_ happen.
> **[I Lived Through A Stupid Coup. America Is Having One Now](https://indica.medium.com/i-lived-through-a-coup-america-is-having-one-now-437934b1dac3)**
>
> You’ve already lost. This is what Americans need to understand
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### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/7 "2021-01-13T05:52:52Z")
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> {…} real crimes and real threats.
If this wasn’t a “real” crime and a “real” threat exactly what did they need to do to make it one?
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/8 "2021-01-13T05:53:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> But this was not an attempt at a takeover of government.
What outcome do you think Trump wanted?
What outcome do you think the mob wanted?
Were their actions in furtherance of bringing about that outcome unlawfully?
This was an attempted coup. Not just beginning with the speech, mind you, but going back months, based on the totality of Trump’s efforts to undermine the election and provoke his cultist followers into action, even unlawful action, to that end.
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/9 "2021-01-13T05:58:14Z")
Oh, and note that the “stupid coup” article was written _just after the election_, not this week.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/10 "2021-01-13T05:59:14Z")
Don’t forget to read the 2 subsequent Stupid Coup articles!
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/11 "2021-01-13T06:04:28Z")
By intent, maybe. But this was as much a coup as a 5 year old walking into the kitchen with a Nerf gun pointed at his parents, announcing that he is in charge now.
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/12 "2021-01-13T06:12:51Z")
No, more like an abusive spouse who forgot to put bullets in the gun. Next time they’ll remember bullets. Or so I fear.
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### Author:  [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/13 "2021-01-13T06:13:10Z")
I’m so fucking sick of people thinking that Trump doesn’t want to be a dictator or that he’s not trying to have a coup even as he fucking tries over and over again to do so. Just because he’s fucking stupid doesn’t mean he’s not attempting a coup. It’s completely fucking clear that he is, and he has significant support within the Republican party.
This is the FUCKING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES with significant support in government, not some crackpot running for dog catcher in Wyoming. He gutted the post office to try to suppress the vote. He called on his supporters to “stand back and stand by” and talked about how they needed to go out and watch the election closely because the democrats were going to try to steal it, in an attempt to have thugs go out and prevent people from voting. He cast doubt on the entire process over and over again. He says that he deserves 8 more years (or sometimes 12 more years) because his first term didn’t count. He said, about Xi Ping being declared president for life, that we should try that here.
When he lost, he said he won. He cast doubt on the entire process, and not only cast doubt, but flat out said that he won and that the democrats are trying to steal your country and you need to go out and fight him. He made calls to congressmen, secretaries of state, and who knows what else, threatning them to make up votes to favor him or disqualify votes from his opponent.
And then he calls an angry mob from all around the country, fires them up, tells them that they need to go down to the capitol and encourage congress to “stop the steel” and illegally make him president, and then they do… and… it’s not a coup because he’s so fucking bad at everything that he keeps failing?
It’s a fucking coup. It is unambiguously a coup. It’s a dangerous coup even with a fucking imbecile leading it. He has significant support still from within the Republican party. If that fucking crowd takes a right instead of a left, suddenly they’re murdering half of Congress. Is it a coup then? Is it not a coup because one savvy cop lured them away from Congress?
For fucks sake, people, you are so fucking willfully blind to what’s going on in some desperate attempt to retain some sense of normalcy that you won’t consider something is a coup until maybe everyone’s head is on a pike and King Donald I is crowned, and then I’m sure you’d actually make up some excuse as to why this isn’t actually a coup because “it’s just not”
What the fuck is wrong with you?
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/14 "2021-01-13T06:15:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> this was as much a coup as a 5 year old walking into the kitchen with a Nerf gun pointed at his parents, announcing that he is in charge now.
Sure, if the 5-year-old smashes a kitchen plate and violently slashes his mother’s throat, and it later emerges that he was operating on his father’s instructions and had a hand grenade in his pocket.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/15 "2021-01-13T06:17:06Z")
There was an attempted coup that occurred. It just didn’t involve the rioters. The real coup attempt was made by the one hundred and forty-seven Republican members of Congress who tried to overturn the election results.
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/16 "2021-01-13T06:17:41Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#):
>
> I’m so fucking sick of people thinking that Trump doesn’t want to be a dictator or that he’s not trying to have a coup even as he fucking tries over and over again to do so.
I’d like to join in this motion. To @Sitman, @velocity, and [@everyone](https://boards.straightdope.com/groups/everyone) else who insists this wasn’t a coup and we should all just STFU and chill:
Fuck. You.
@discobot quote
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### Author:  [@discobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/discobot)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/17 "2021-01-13T06:17:42Z")
> 🗨 _Deeds of kindness are equal in weight to all the commandments._ — Talmud
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/18 "2021-01-13T06:18:02Z")
Well fuck you, too, @discobot!
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### Author:  [@discobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/discobot)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/19 "2021-01-13T06:18:03Z")
Hi! To find out what I can do, say `@discobot display help`.
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/20 "2021-01-13T06:20:08Z")
@discobot this is a coup, put on this red hat and give us patriots access to the source code
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