# It wasn’t a coup **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407 "2021-01-13T05:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/181 "2021-01-14T01:41:56Z")
The events since the election two months ago would be considered an attempted coup, even if nothing had happened on 1-6. A sitting President attempting to coax everyone from state electoral offices to his own Vice President to at best muddy the waters, and at worst, like about the true results of a legal election, all while putting out a non stop stream of lies about the validity of that election, is enough to consider it that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/182 "2021-01-14T01:45:41Z")
It was a mere 10 days ago that Trump called the Ga Secretary of State and pressured him to find another 11,800 votes. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/183 "2021-01-14T01:52:57Z")
And 7 more until the motherfucker is escorted out. ( I have a vacation day from work scheduled for the 20th. I’m going to wake up sober that day, but can’t predict how long that will last.) ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/184 "2021-01-14T02:05:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Such profiles in courage… Again with their whining and sainted victimhood. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/185 "2021-01-14T03:00:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > It was a mere 10 days ago that Trump called the Ga Secretary of State and pressured him to find another 11,800 votes. And that wasn’t some imputation or subtle suggestion; he literally told Brad Raffensperger that he needed him to “find 11,780 votes.” That in and of it self is clear evidence of interfering with an election in a very explicit and direct way. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/186 "2021-01-14T03:08:00Z")
I’ll just leave this here; it has a couple of videos along with excellent descriptions of the events therein: > **['Bullhorn lady' gives detailed instructions in viral video of Capitol riots](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/video-capitol-riot-coordinated-bullhorn-lady/)** > > A viral video from inside the Capitol riots shows people coordinating their assault, plotting ways to 'take this building.' ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/187 "2021-01-14T03:38:09Z")
… and Donald Trump was also impeached _earlier_ this year for attempting to conspire with a foreign power to help him win this very election. … and Donald Trump refused to acknowledge he would accept the results of the 2016 election if he lost. But, yeah. That guy? When he organized a rally to coincide with a Constitutional procedure _to the minute_ and then set that mob on the Congress to ‘Stop the Steal’…? totally not a coup. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/188 "2021-01-14T04:07:03Z")
[Sweeping arrests of Capitol rioters uncover large arsenals of weapons.](https://youtu.be/Qgvqi3_PAgA) Whomever still doesn’t believe this is an attempted coup, raise your hands. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/189 "2021-01-14T04:15:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What I worry about is if everyone focuses on the riot, which had no chance of success, they’ll ignore the real coup attempt that was carried out that same day by Congressional Republicans. Those people are still in power and are backed up by an organization which has the capabilities to overthrow the government This is so important! The coup attempt was by the Republicans in Congress, aided (even if temporarily interrupted) by the riotous rabble. Both prongs failed, but neither failed by much. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/190 "2021-01-14T04:19:42Z")
The day before the coup attempt, members of Congress or their staff were giving “tours” around the Capitol even though the Capitol has been closed to tours since last March. Other Congressional members described the tours as appearing to be reconnaissance, including one who is ex-military, and she reported the suspicious groups to the Sergeant at Arms on the same day (January 1). Too bad he didn’t apparently didn’t listen given how light the detail was the next day and how under-equipped they were. Reconnaissance the day before. Insurgents with maps of the tunnels that are used to evacuate legislators and staff and who knew _exactly_ how to locate offices in a building that is notoriously hard to navigate. Capitol Police who appeared to be giving assistance. A large arsenal of weapons. Pipe bombs placed to distract and draw off parts of the Capitol police force. Groups of men dressed in military garb who were embedded in the riot but were moving with purpose and as a unit. Members of Congress terrified to vote against Trump because they fear the white supremacist groups in their states will try to assassinate them or murder their families. It was an attempted coup. > **[Rep. Tim Ryan: Probe Underway On Whether Members Gave Capitol Tours To Rioters](https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/13/956426253/rep-tim-ryan-probe-under-way-on-whether-members-gave-capitol-tours-to-rioters)** > > The Ohio Democrat says investigators are looking into whether "potentially members of Congress" gave tours to pro-Trump rioters prior to the breach of the U.S. Capitol. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/191 "2021-01-14T04:56:04Z")
Why would a Congressman who wanted to do “recon” not just send photos to them? That would be far less suspicious looking than physically touring them about in person. ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/192 "2021-01-14T05:05:33Z")
First, I want to say that I wish I had SenorBeef’s rhetorical skills. I think he said a lot of what I’ve been thinking. My question for the “not a coup”‘ers. You say it was stupid because it had no chance of success. What do you think would have happened if the rioters had gotten ahold of congress? What are the procedures to count the vote if half of congress is missing, does it change? More than 100 reps voted against certifying the results after the attack (including my entire state’s delegation). Do you think if they were the only reps present to vote that their stance would suddenly change? Or maybe the police get control but no vote happens, while still missing a particular half of congress. So now maybe we have a Congress that has confirmed Trump for 4 more years or at very least failed to confirm Joe Biden. Of course everyone knows it is illegitimate. But what happens next? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/193 "2021-01-14T05:13:04Z")
‣‣ The “tour” group(s) was/were doing the (possible) recon. ‣‣ The Congressperson(s) was/were facilitating that since no tours at all have been allowed since last March. ‣‣ Why do you expect me to know why they didn’t go with pictures? Why aren’t bullets working for me? I had to insert the ‣‣ because using the bullet button only moved stuff over. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/194 "2021-01-14T05:14:50Z")
Part of my job is doing site surveys. Photos & blueprints are not an adequate substitute for eyes-on observation IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/195 "2021-01-14T05:25:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why would a Congressman who wanted to do “recon” not just send photos to them? How many photos do you think you would need to show the route from the entrance to a particular Congressperson’s office, especially at [the lower levels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Capitol#/media/File:US_Capitol_basement_floor_plan_1997_105th-congress.gif)? I’ve been to Congressional offices, and it’s a warren. In any case, photos don’t really serve to indicate a route compared to first hand experience. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/196 "2021-01-14T05:27:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why would a Congressman who wanted to do “recon” not just send photos to them? That would be far less suspicious looking than physically touring them about in person. @Colibri has covered why photos wouldn’t work nearly so well. But in any event… This is just the “this is too stupid to be called a coup” argument being recycled again. Fanatically pro-Trump Congresspeople are not generally political masterminds; four years of Trump and decades of “[but what if we didn’t…](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2021/01/07/but-what-if-we-didnt/)” has emboldened Republicans to think they can get away with pretty much anything; and in any case, why would they feel any inclination toward great subterfuge? They do not perceive themselves as seditious criminals, they think they will be celebrated as heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/197 "2021-01-14T12:13:50Z")
> **[Revealed: walkie-talkie app Zello hosted far-right groups who stormed Capitol](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/13/zello-app-us-capitol-attack-far-right)** > > Audio and chat logs show insurrectionists communicated via the app, which has avoided proactive content moderation “We have a good group: 30 to 40 of us. We’re sticking together and sticking to the plan,” the female voice is heard saying on Zello as they were walking toward the Capitol. “The police are doing nothing. They’re not even trying to stop us.” … “God bless and godspeed. Keep going,” said a male voice from a quiet environment. “Jess, do your shit,” said another. “This is what we fucking lived up for. Everything we fucking trained for.” … Yep. Disorganized rabble with no strategic goals, just breaking into a government building on a whim. You betcha. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/198 "2021-01-14T12:30:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why would a Congressman who wanted to do “recon” not just send photos to them? That would be far less suspicious looking than physically touring them about in person. They expected to prevail. Confidence is not often paired with caution. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/199 "2021-01-14T12:31:40Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If they had been a bit faster, the interior Capitol police a bit slower or less brave, and they _had_ managed to capture and/or kill some number of legislators, would you then consider it a coup attempt? > > If you haven’t watched the videos, you may not realize this, but they were literally seconds away at times from being able to do this. This is such a key point. They didn’t have a plan B, so when their plan A collapsed–when they were unable to take hostages–they milled around the Capitol like a bunch of morons, taking selfies and dumps everywhere. But their plan A involved pipe bombs, zip ties, and a gallows. Plan A was a coup, and as you say, it was seconds away from success. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/200 "2021-01-14T13:00:46Z")
Well, success at Step One, anyway: kidnapping congresscritters and harming them in front of the cameras. Success at Steps Two and Onward, securing permanent Presidenthood for Trump, that was never going to happen. Still an attempted coup, though, despite its stupidity and the impossibility of the desired outcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=11)