# It wasn’t a coup **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407 "2021-01-13T05:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/382 "2021-01-20T17:34:09Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > You will face all the charges and I hope they add felony murder charges to all of you. (is that a possibility for a federal crime?) It’s been reported that the death-by-fire extinguisher will be investigated as a homicide with the FBI joining in. I don’t know if that’s still the case. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/383 "2021-01-20T17:57:29Z")
I had social media, I’d widely share this. Very true, and I’m somewhat surprised Trump didn’t use pardons as an attempt to tie himself to his base. There is no way that Trump has a future as a moderate - he is either a radical right wing leader, or he is a nothing. ---
**Author:** ![rboyce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rboyce/32/4066_2.png) [@rboyce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rboyce)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/384 "2021-01-20T18:11:46Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > “Whereas Cindy McCain has failed to support Conservative Republican candidates such as President Trump;” History will shine a bright light on Cindy McCain while Trump will go down in history as the worst president in US history. Thank God dump is gone to Mar a Lago golf course where he can cheat on his golf score while lying to his caddy and no one will give a damn. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/385 "2021-01-20T19:59:10Z")
[Feds say Capitol siege suspect who plotted to sell Pelosi’s laptop to Russia bragged on social media](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/feds-say-capitol-siege-suspect-who-plotted-to-sell-pelosis-laptop-to-russia-bragged-on-social-media/ar-BB1cUmze) Rioter moron gives authorities _all_ the evidence need to convict her. > Williams told a former partner she intended to take the device during the U.S. Capitol riot Jan. 6 and send it to her friend in Russia who would then pass it off to the country’s foreign intelligence service, according to an affidavit filed Sunday. > New court documents released Tuesday show Williams live-streamed her raid of Pelosi’s office, posting one clip with a title that read, “They got the laptop.” > > In a series of posts on Discord, a user named “Riley” wrote, mispelling Pelosi’s name: “I stole s— from Nancy Polesi,” and “I took Polesis hard drives. I don’t care. Kill me,” according to the court documents. WOW! What an idiot! ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/386 "2021-01-20T20:03:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > found the writing in _Starship Troopers_ to be so over the top that it was obvious to me that Heinlein was mocking those who demand military service be a requirement for public office or even before obtaining citizenship. Paul Verhoeven made a really good adaptation of Starship Troopers that you’d probably love. His 80/90s satires are extremely relevant today. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/387 "2021-01-20T20:09:06Z")
Nobody ever said these fuckers were smart. Dumber than Fredo braggin about his friend Johnny Ola, lol ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/388 "2021-01-20T21:20:45Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > FWIW, my (half a lifetime ago) recollection of the book was that although they would be obliged to find a method for, say, a quadriplegic to serve, it would be in the realm of something like a crash test dummy or similarly unequal form of service, seemingly to dehumanize and hazard such a person for even daring to ask to be treated as an equal (a citizen). Not exactly - you’re conflating two passages. The bit about hazardous testing duty is about whether any soldier (regardless of ability) can get the assignment they want: > [@](#): > > “You realize that you aren’t allowed to pick your service?” > > Carl said, “I thought we could state our preferences?” > > “Certainly. And that’s the last choice you’ll make until the end of your term. The placement officer pays attention to your choice too. First thing he does is check whether there’s a demand for left-handed glass blowers this week—that being what you think would make you happy. Having reluctantly conceded that there is a need for your choice—probably at the bottom of the Pacific—he then tests you for innate ability and preparation. About once in twenty times he is forced to admit that everything matches and you get the job . . . until some practical joker gives you dispatch orders to do something very different. But the other nineteen times he turns you down and decides that you are just what they have been needing to field-test survival equipment on Titan.” He added meditatively, “It’s chilly on Titan. And it’s amazing how often experimental equipment fails to work. Have to have real field tests, though—laboratories just never get all the answers.” The bit about people with handicaps serving is later: > “Why, the purpose is,” he answered, hauling off and hitting me in the knee with a hammer (I kicked him, but not hard), “to find out what duties you are physically able to perform. But if you came in here in a wheel chair and blind in both eyes and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find something silly enough to match. Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch, maybe. The only way you can fail is by having psychiatrists decide that you are not able to understand the oath.” “Why would you be so silly as to want to vote?” isn’t a great take, but it’s not quite, “How dare you want to be treated as an equal!” and could be argued that it’s just that particular character being a dingus. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/389 "2021-01-21T01:31:54Z")
It’s been a long time since I’ve read the books, but I seem to recall that there weren’t really any tangible benefits other than the franchise that being a citizen gave a person. You didn’t make more money or have more freedoms or more rights than a non-citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/390 "2021-01-21T01:33:18Z")
What about the right to self determination through democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/391 "2021-01-21T01:38:38Z")
Yeah, the franchise. I noted that specifically as a difference. I’m asking if there were others. And has any government anywhere, ever had a universal right to self-determination through democracy? It seems to me that there’s always a hurdle to get over (even if it’s just age) and a possibility of losing that right through losing the right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/392 "2021-01-21T01:48:10Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > You will face all the charges and I hope they add felony murder charges to all of you. (is that a possibility for a federal crime?) There is, but it involves a specific defined list of crimes in the course of which a death ensues. Not just _any_ felony that you might have been anywhere around. So IMO it is unlikely “all of them” would be facing such a charge. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/393 "2021-01-21T02:30:37Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > It’s been a long time since I’ve read the books, but I seem to recall that there weren’t really any tangible benefits other than the franchise that being a citizen gave a person. You didn’t make more money or have more freedoms or more rights than a non-citizen. That is perhaps foremost among the premises that the book relies upon that I will not grant. This notion that those denied the franchise will nevertheless see their rights and interests protected. The people are content and see their rights protected because that’s the way Heinlein wrote the story, not necessarily because such a system as the one he lays out would actually achieve such a result in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/394 "2021-01-21T03:06:19Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The people are content and see their rights protected because that’s the way Heinlein wrote the story, not necessarily because such a system as the one he lays out would actually achieve such a result in reality. Agreed. Didn’t mean to give the impression I thought otherwise. We can see in our own democracy that even WHEN you have the right to vote, protecting your liberties can be challenging. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/395 "2021-01-21T03:43:44Z")
Bunch of rednecks and/or politically naive people protested out of accepted norms. Others were right wing militia with more nefarious goals. A coup would involve significant involvement of the military and national security infrastructure. It was a horrible time in our nations history, and I do blame Trump for egging the crowd on, both that day and the whole “I won” nonsense. But it wasn’t a coup attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/396 "2021-01-21T04:03:19Z")
So the storming of the Bastille wasn’t a coup attempt, even though it was a attack on an well-known symbol of royal power, and brought down the government? The lack of military makes it a non-coup? ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/397 "2021-01-21T04:09:43Z")
The strength of the French people overthrew the French government. Not some yahoos that randomly decided to storm the bastille. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/398 "2021-01-21T04:13:25Z")
[Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat): > [@](#): > > A coup […] is the removal of an existing government from power, usually through violent means. Typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power **by a political faction** , the military, or a dictator. […] A coup attempt may refer to a coup in the works or an unsuccessful coup. It was a coup. A failed one, but a coup. It was an attack by one branch of the government on another wielding a political faction/mob. ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/399 "2021-01-21T04:14:11Z")
And the Strength of The American people, and our Democratic institutions meant that these yahoos storming the Capital will be brought to justice ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/400 "2021-01-21T04:19:13Z")
Which is relevant to the question, how? As everyone has noted, you can quibble that it was really a coup _attempt_ (since it wasn’t successful), but coup it was and coup it remains. Would you rather we call it a putsch? Would that make you feel better? ---
**Author:** ![MustangSal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mustangsal/32/6327_2.png) [@MustangSal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MustangSal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/401 "2021-01-21T04:21:05Z")
Do you really think Former President Trump instructed man/bear/pig to Seize Congress? and proclaim him President for life? Trump is an idiot. But if even an idiot wouldn’t try it this way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=21)