# It wasn’t a coup **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407 "2021-01-13T05:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/602 "2021-01-28T02:30:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > - I was supposed to stop this and I failed. I suck at my job. I’m such a loser. > - Soon the investigation will uncover that I was part of the inside job. > - Soon the investigation will uncover that I was active on far-right social media and they’ll suspect I was part of the inside job. But I wasn’t. I’m trapped. > - Basic PTSD. I signed up to be a mostly ceremonial guard and I’m just not cut out for what became (briefly) a war. The things I saw/did haunt my every waking moment and fill my dreams. > - America is doomed because of the leftists and I don’t want to live to see it. > - America is doomed because of the rightists and I don’t want to live to see it. > - It just looks like a suicide. _They_ did it. For various murky values of “they.” You left out: - Really gut-wrenchingly terrible PTSD from circumstances I don’t think anyone, even combat soldiers in a war zone, would ever imagine going through. I signed up to defend the Capitol. I cared about this job and my coworkers. I did it well even when my superiors and some of my fellow officers didn’t. And I thought the people protesting outside cared about me and my coworkers too. Then I watched them beat one of my coworkers to death while chanting “USA! USA! USA!” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/603 "2021-01-28T02:48:14Z")
About 140 officers were injured, some with brain injuries. One officer will lose his eye. > **['Stabbed with a metal fence stake': Here are 7 disturbing details about the...](https://www.alternet.org/2021/01/capitol-2650159453)** > > Despite the widespread coverage of and attention to the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol by pro-Trump insurrectionists, law enforcement agencies been largely reticent to provide direct briefings to the press and updates for the public about what... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/604 "2021-01-28T03:17:11Z")
Good point. My intent was not to trivialize what these guys dealt with. Being overwhelmed by a mob has got to be terrifying. On top of that to see crazed Americans attacking your fellows is a monster mindfuck. My post wasn’t meant to trivialize the trauma, nor to JAQ. But it is true there’s a bunch of reasons folks might be killing themselves and just as we’re still digging out the stories of all of what really happened on Insurrection Day, we’re also still digging through the aftermath of what Insurrection Day caused. I am concerned about the idea that police forces are being reticent about the damage they absorbed. There are several plausible reasons for that reticence, and some of them are not healthy signs for our society. Again, facts out in the open are the best defense against evil spin. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/605 "2021-01-28T03:59:14Z")
“ If it wasn’t my job I would have done that for free. It was absolutely my pleasure to crush a white nationalist insurrection," Daniel Hodges told [NBC](https://twitter.com/nbcwashington/status/1350223773270736899?s=20). “I’m glad I was in a position to be able to help. We’ll do it as many times as it takes.” > **[A DC police officer said it was 'absolutely my pleasure to crush a white...](https://www.businessinsider.com/dc-officer-says-hed-crush-white-nationalist-insurrection-again-2021-1)** > > "If it wasn't my job I would have done that for free. It was absolutely my pleasure to crush a white nationalist insurrection," Daniel Hodges said. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/606 "2021-01-28T04:06:33Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Strassia](#): > > > > My point is that it did not take a majority or even an election to get a dictator. > > Except there were elections. In both the elections in 1932, the Nazis were the single largest party in the Reichstag, and Hitler was the leader of the party. That is one of the reasons Hindenberg appointed him as chancellor. I’m not well versed in this at all, but [Wikipedia says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power#From_Armistice_(November_1918)_to_party_membership_(September_1919)) that was a plurality, not a majority. So his point still works: the majority of Germans did not vote to support the Hitler and the Nazi party, yet he was still able to take over with a decent sized minority. I also note it had similar vibes as the Republican Party thinking it could “tame” Trump. The conservative parties then thought they could tame Hitler, too. Hitler seems to have understood how to play nice to get people to willingly give him power, and knew better than to go after the military, things Trump fortunately didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/607 "2021-01-28T11:39:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > he’s okay with having Ben Carson and other Black officials in his White House Slaveholders were also happy having a few Blacks in _their_ White houses. Didn’t make them any less racist. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/608 "2021-01-28T12:06:02Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > A coup is the illegal seizing of governmental power. If the military, or a faction of it, is involved, then it is a military coup. There are may different types of coups. This was a little deuce coup. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/609 "2021-01-28T13:01:59Z")
This American Life had a segment of their show this past week focusing on one of the Capitol Police Officers who went through the whole ordeal. It is a quite a harrowing account and really underscores how bad things were: > **[Cops and Mobbers - This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/730/the-empty-chair/act-one-8)** > > Reporter Emmanuel Felton called up several Black Capitol Police officers in the days after the attack on the Capitol on January 6th to find out what it was like for them to face off with this mostly white mob. (13 minutes) > > You can find more of... Given what this one officer went through, I can understand how traumatized any of them could be. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/610 "2021-01-28T13:05:29Z")
I think that it has done more damage to the US than 9/11. I doubt that we recover. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/611 "2021-01-28T13:09:06Z")
Douche coup. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/612 "2021-01-28T13:40:43Z")
9-11 was an attack by foreigners. A bit of security theater is all it took to keep people from thinking it would happen again. This was done by our fellow countrymen, our neighbors. It’s a much more devastating wound. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/613 "2021-01-28T14:03:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > A bit of security theater is all it took to keep people from thinking it would happen again. I would argue that “security theater” and the social changes wrapped up in it directly led us to where we are now. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/614 "2021-01-28T14:23:44Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > - I was supposed to stop this and I failed. I suck at my job. I’m such a loser. > > - Soon the investigation will uncover that I was part of the inside job. > > - Soon the investigation will uncover that I was active on far-right social media and they’ll suspect I was part of the inside job. But I wasn’t. I’m trapped. > > - Basic PTSD. I signed up to be a mostly ceremonial guard and I’m just not cut out for what became (briefly) a war. The things I saw/did haunt my every waking moment and fill my dreams. > > - America is doomed because of the leftists and I don’t want to live to see it. > > - America is doomed because of the rightists and I don’t want to live to see it. > > - It just looks like a suicide. _They_ did it. For various murky values of “they.” > > You left out: > > - Really gut-wrenchingly terrible PTSD from circumstances I don’t think anyone, even combat soldiers in a war zone, would ever imagine going through. I signed up to defend the Capitol. I cared about this job and my coworkers. I did it well even when my superiors and some of my fellow officers didn’t. And I thought the people protesting outside cared about me and my coworkers too. Then I watched them beat one of my coworkers to death while chanting “USA! USA! USA!” Or (and IMO most likely) … - I was already suffering from deep depression, and this just pushed me over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/615 "2021-01-28T14:25:30Z")
I wouldn’t disagree with that. My point of security theater was that the actions taken would not actually prevent another terrorist attack, but it made people feel as though it would. I don’t know that there are actions that can be taken that would improve our chances of thwarting a domestic terrorist attack, and I don’t know that there is anything that we can do that would make people think that it would either. It’s one thing to be scared of those foreigners, it’s a whole different situation to be scared of your neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/616 "2021-01-28T14:36:32Z")
It’s like if you got burglarized then you can install a security system, get a dog, get better locks, bars on the windows, etc. If you learn someone in your own home is stealing from you, like a family member or spouse, you can’t do any of that stuff. And it’s worse when you can’t be sure who it is and how many of them are doing it, it could happen any time from anyone. What do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/617 "2021-01-28T14:38:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t know that there are actions that can be taken that would improve our chances of thwarting a domestic terrorist attack, and I don’t know that there is anything that we can do that would make people think that it would either. How about, “insist loudly and often that this was NOT in fact a coup attempt or domestic insurrection and do what you can to avoid punishing those responsible, especially at the top”? That seems to be the play that (some) are going with. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/618 "2021-01-28T14:38:37Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I am concerned about the idea that police forces are being reticent about the damage they absorbed. There are several plausible reasons for that reticence, and some of them are not healthy signs for our society. A possible reason for this reticence is that law enforcement officers and ex-military were a significant portion of the mob. These rioters are supposed to be people who think like they do; they’re probably ideologically on the same side of many issues. In fact I recall in one of the videos that protesters said things like ‘We’re on your side’ and ‘We defended y’all’ (against BLM). I’m sure that there was some ideological and psychological reciprocation, but at the end of the day, the Capitol officers and MPD were there to do their job, and their job was to make sure that the nation’s capital city and national government function. If this is a budding civil war that we’re dealing with, then these officers were among the first to find themselves in its trenches. It’s undoubtedly a pretty rough mind fuck that they’re still trying to process. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/619 "2021-01-28T14:43:27Z")
Consider the political reaction, too. After 9/11 there was nearly bipartisan condemnation of the attack and we mobilized massive amounts of resources within days to confront the problem. After 1/6/21, we already have a political party committed to downplaying the severity of the assault and, from the looks of things, still content to engage in and countenance the same types of rhetoric and behavior that inspire the assault in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/620 "2021-01-28T14:51:40Z")
Especially since we just put bars on the windows, so we are kinda trapped in here with eachother. And the dog is starting to look hungry. > [@Babale](#): > > How about, “insist loudly and often that this was NOT in fact a coup attempt or domestic insurrection and do what you can to avoid punishing those responsible, especially at the top”? That seems to be the play that (some) are going with. That’s how some may choose to justify it, but it is not something that will allay anyone’s fears. Those who believe it will be enabled in thinking that stuff like that is acceptable, and that their fellow countrymen are persecuting them for simply asserting their rights. The rest of us who don’t buy it will only see this as encouragement for further assaults on both the ideals and the real world. 9-11 at least was fairly unifying for our country. There were very very few Americans who sympathized with the hijackers. It certainly set in motion some reactions that have probably done more harm than good, but we at least all agreed that we’d not like to see more planes flown into buildings. Insurrection day is much more divisive. We have a fairly substantial number of people, many in office, who think that the insurrectionists had the right idea. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/621 "2021-01-28T15:14:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m not well versed in this at all, but [Wikipedia says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power#From_Armistice_(November_1918)_to_party_membership_(September_1919)) that was a plurality, not a majority. So his point still works: the majority of Germans did not vote to support the Hitler and the Nazi party, yet he was still able to take over with a decent sized minority. Yes, he came to power by constitutional means. Then once in power, he gradually subverted the constitution with the support of other democratically elected parties. A majority of the Reichstag voted for the Enabling Act which ended democracy and constitutionalism in Germany. But to the extent a party can win an election in a multi-party parliamentary system, Hitler won the elections of 1932, which are generally considered the last fair elections, in spite of the accompanying violence in the streets between the rival paramilitary groups. That is one way that a democracy can fall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=32)