# It wasn’t a coup **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407 "2021-01-13T05:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/101 "2021-01-13T20:13:13Z")
> [@RyanAdam](#): > > And I am conservative and it was absolutely an autogolpe, a clownishly disorganized one as is typical of all Trump operations but it was one Saying this wasn’t a coup is like saying that the Trump Taj Mahal wasn’t a casino. It wasn’t a very GOOD casino, but it still was a casino. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/102 "2021-01-13T20:15:27Z")
I don’t believe it was an attempted coup either. It was a planned demonstration and certainly some of the people planned on getting violent. But I don’t think anyone there planned on taking over the government by force. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/103 "2021-01-13T20:20:12Z")
But it was part of a larger scheme to keep Trump in power after his electoral defeat. It was a stupid disorganized scheme based on delusion and doomed to fail, but it was still a scheme with a goal. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/104 "2021-01-13T20:24:08Z")
It only “failed” because there were only 8,000 of them. If that crowd had been a stadium-sized crowd we’d be having very different conversations right now. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/105 "2021-01-13T20:24:56Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I don’t believe it was an attempted coup either. > > It was a planned demonstration and certainly some of the people planned on getting violent. But I don’t think anyone there planned on taking over the government by force. 🤔 > **[The Capitol rioters put themselves all over social media. Now they’re getting...](https://www.vox.com/recode/22218963/capitol-photos-legal-charges-fbi-police-facebook-twitter)** > > How law enforcement and internet detectives are identifying the Capitol rioters. > Libby Andrews, a Chicago real estate agent, was fired from her job on Thursday after her real estate employer, [@properties, said](https://twitter.com/properties/status/1347237174073241601) it received “a tremendous amount of outreach” about Andrews, **“who acknowledged on social media that she took part in ‘storming the Capitol.’”** Andrews [told the Chicago Tribune](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-roselle-tattoo-arrested-capitol-invasion-20210107-y462njdfhvhrtgff753fgcibwa-story.html) that she didn’t realize she was doing anything wrong and that “it was like a party.” > > And former Pennsylvania state Rep. Rick Saccone, who [boasted on Facebook](https://triblive.com/local/regional/rick-saccone-joins-chaos-in-washington-praises-trump/) that **he was “storming the capitol” and “our vanguard has broken through the barricades,”** has [resigned](https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/saccone-resigns-from-svc-faculty-after-his-online-posts-about-d-c-trip-draw-flak/) from his adjunct teaching position at St. Vincent College. > > Law enforcement has been happy to make use of social media and internet activities to track down alleged criminals in the past, just as they are doing now. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/106 "2021-01-13T20:28:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not a coup attempt just because they believe it was one. Just like they’re not patriots just because they think they are. If they had been a bit faster, the interior Capitol police a bit slower or less brave, and they _had_ managed to capture and/or kill some number of legislators, would you then consider it a coup attempt? If you haven’t watched the videos, you may not realize this, but they were literally seconds away at times from being able to do this. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Calling it a coup attempt gives these people too much credit. And that will encourage other people to follow their example. No, prosecuting them only for trespassing and giving them a slap on their wrist will encourage others to follow their example. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We need to be telling everyone that you can’t overthrow the government with a terrorist attack. No, we need to be telling everyone that you don’t assault the Capitol. They need to know that coup attempts _will_ fail, and that those involved _will_ face severe repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/107 "2021-01-13T20:29:19Z")
A coup being treated in certain quarters with all the seriousness of a collegiate panty raid. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/108 "2021-01-13T20:39:22Z")
Lots of people seem painfully unaware of what has happened to the concept of ‘normal’ over the past four years. Obama faced endless opprobrium and vitriol for saying “if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan” and for [wearing a tan suit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_tan_suit_controversy). (Bill) Clinton was impeached for a consensual, if extramarital, sexual act. But this ? This shit is just utterly nuts. All Four Years Of It – not _just_ the highlight reel. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/109 "2021-01-13T20:39:44Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > A coup being treated in certain quarters with all the seriousness of a collegiate panty raid. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/110 "2021-01-13T20:45:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree. We shouldn’t let the crazy people decide what things are. They would probably tell you they’re all patriots, so should we call them that? > > We shouldn’t let people like this impose their false reality on the rest of us. These people are not patriots and what they did was not a coup attempt, even if they believe these things. I would agree that it wasn’t a successful coup, but it was most definitely an attempted coup. It was not, as you argued, a terrorist attack, which uses violence merely to influence governmental policy. Coups actually try to disrupt the transfer of power – when you see people deliberately trying to disrupt proceedings to officially recognize an incoming administration and then chase legislators into hiding, an attempted coup is much closer to that description than a terrorist attack. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/111 "2021-01-13T20:51:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If they had been a bit faster, the interior Capitol police a bit slower or less brave, and they _had_ managed to capture and/or kill some number of legislators, would you then consider it a coup attempt? > > If you haven’t watched the videos, you may not realize this, but they were literally seconds away at times from being able to do this. No, I would not call that a coup attempt. If they had burned down the Capital building and killed Pence and every member of Congress, I wouldn’t call that a coup attempt either. Because the response to them doing that would not have been “Oh, well, I guess this means Trump gets a second term.” > [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, prosecuting them only for trespassing and giving them a slap on their wrist will encourage others to follow their example. I’ve been calling it a terrorist attack. I feel we should prosecute them as terrorists and lock them up for the rest of their lives which I don’t feel is a slap on the wrist. Go back to 9/11. Terrorists crashed planes into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. Was that a coup attempt? Suppose the fourth plane had crashed into the Capitol building. Would that have been a coup attempt? Suppose they had a fifth and sixth plane and had crashed those into the White House and the Supreme Court. Would that have been a coup attempt? The answer is no. These would still have been terrorist attacks. There is no line they could have crossed that would have turned the attacks into a coup attempt. There is no point where crashing planes into buildings causes the United States to change its political system. That’s the basic truth. You can’t point a gun at somebody and make Donald Trump President for four more years. There is no path from A to B. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/112 "2021-01-13T20:53:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You can’t point a gun at somebody and make Donald Trump President for four more years. There is no path from A to B. Yes, there is. It’s an unlikely path to be sure. But stopping the EC certification for a while could _hypothetically_ lead to states sending competing votes to Congress and Congress certifying the fake ones. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/113 "2021-01-13T20:54:49Z")
Just because the execution was incompetent, doesn’t mean it’s not a coup. Like others have said, what makes it a coup isn’t that a riot breached the Capitol security, it’s that Trump and/or his cronies managed to change the law enforcement preparation AND response ahead of time, and that Trump deliberately incited the crowd to go to the Capitol and do some vague things. Of course, he’ll claim that he was misinterpreted, but we know he wasn’t. Now we all know that this was a flawed and stupid plan from the start- even had they managed to coerce Congress into doing anything, it wouldn’t have actually stood up in court, and I personally don’t think the States would put up with an usurpation of the Presidency either. The US isn’t a centrally governed nation like others, where if you control the Presidency/Capitol, you control the country. But none of that makes it NOT a coup, it just makes it one that was flawed conceptually and executed idiotically. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/114 "2021-01-13T20:58:19Z")
I think you’re making up your own definition of a coup – your choice but it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/115 "2021-01-13T20:59:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes, there is. It’s an unlikely path to be sure. But stopping the EC certification for a while could _hypothetically_ lead to states sending competing votes to Congress and Congress certifying the fake ones. Really? How was that going to happen? Were the rioters going to hold Congress hostage and threaten to kill one every hour until the states sent a second set of electoral votes in? And afterwards, everyone would have said, _“Sure, it was illegal. But now that those second sets of electoral votes have been sent into the building, we have no choice. We have to accept the outcome of those votes.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/116 "2021-01-13T21:00:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think you’re making up your own definition of a coup – your choice but it’s wrong. A coup would be a change in the government obtained by illegal means. Is that the definition everyone else is using? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/117 "2021-01-13T21:01:20Z")
In Nemo’s world there are no attempts, only successes. Therefore, if the guy didn’t die, it wasn’t attempted _murder_ - sheesh! It just assault! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/118 "2021-01-13T21:02:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A coup would be a change in the government obtained by illegal means. > > Is that the definition everyone else is using? Yes. Which was attempted, live, on television. Now that we are in agreement, maybe this silly thread can be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/119 "2021-01-13T21:03:55Z")
You keep glossing over intent; the terrorists on 9/11 had a goal, which was to strike terror into the hearts of Americans and show that we were not as safe as we thought we were. The Coup Klutz Clan on 1/6 intended to disrupt the transition of power, _regardless of how idiotic their basic plan was or how unlikely it was to succeed._ What transpired was _by definition_ an attempted coup. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407/120 "2021-01-13T21:06:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? How was that going to happen? > > Were the rioters going to hold Congress hostage and threaten to kill one every hour until the states sent a second set of electoral votes in? They were going to make certification impossible on the 6th, buying time. Trump would continue his arm twisting calls to people like the Georgia Secretary of State in an effort to get them to “recalculate” the results. _If successful_, the states would then send another slate of electoral votes to Congress. So, when they reconvened in a week for so (after mopping up all the blood of dead politicians), Pence or his replacement could reject the original votes and count the new ones. The whole thing is very delusional, but if you listened to that bizarre call to Georgia, it’s the only explanation. What else could Trump’s “plan” have been? What did he want Pence to do? What were the objections for? This is part of what he said at his rally: > States want to revote, the states got defrauded. They were given false information, they voted on it. Now they want to recertify; they want it back. All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasn-t-a-coup/930407.md?page=7)