# It wasn't racially motivated unless your race is "dumb" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592 "2005-12-29T17:18:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/41 "2005-12-29T21:06:18Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You people are crazy. Separate bags for bug spray? It’s pretty standard practice in grocery stores to teach baggers and clerks to separate the chemicals from the food. You don’t want your caustic drain cleaner leaking all over your tomatoes, after all. You can bag chemicals together; it’s not like you need a separate bag for each one. But raw meats should go in one bag; chemicals in another; and other foods should be bagged separately from the previous bags. And someone should teach the baggers that avocados can bruise and don’t need to be set at the bottom of ten pounds of food. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/42 "2005-12-29T21:06:52Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > In case more of you wanted to educate me: > > I get it: > > 1. Kid didn’t deserve what happened to him > 2. There is more to the story than I am aware of > > Incidentally I thought of both of these things before posting. > > Thanks, > Erek You thought of that, and you posted anyway, and you said truly vicious things about the kid who was assaulted and whom you didn’t even know, anyway? OK, I’m down with that. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/43 "2005-12-29T21:08:07Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > **mswas** , if you beat up a black person while calling him a stupid nigger then it will take rhetorical skills far greater than your own to convince anyone it was not racially motivated, your proclivity toward creative definitions notwithstanding. Am I using the term ‘race’ incorrectly? Is there some emotionally loaded version you would prefer me to use like the Atheo-Christian dogmatic versions of Creationism and Religion and God you all try to lock me into? Or was that just a snipe like a gang sign showing that you are representing? Give it a rest, I stopped arguing with you guys on those topics simply because most of you missed the point entirely like 98% of the time. If you want to take insecticide home in your food bag, far be it from me to complain. Here’s a simple question you can ask yourself when trying to determine one’s motivation. “Was the factor causal to the effect?” Now if I beat up the first person I see on the street, calling them a stupid nigger is part of the effect, not part of the cause. Therefore them being black has nothing to do with my “motivation”. I think maybe they don’t spend enough time on “cause and effect” in schools. I remember when they taught it in elementary school, I missed the day they talked about it, and I dwelled on the nature of cause an effect for a long time, so now I am capable of performing amazing feats like seperating motivation from method. Of course I could just be creatively defining words as you accuse me. But I do agree that I’d need far superior rhetorical skills to get out of beating up someone randomly, regardless of what I called them in the course of the beating. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/44 "2005-12-29T21:09:42Z")
> [@black455](#): > > I bet some of your _best friends_ are black, too. > > I, for one, salute you. I was wondering how long it would be before someone trotted out that cliche. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/45 "2005-12-29T21:11:18Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > You thought of that, and you posted anyway, and you said truly vicious things about the kid who was assaulted and whom you didn’t even know, anyway? > > OK, I’m down with that. Carry on. I basically was pitting the fictional character placed before me for losing my sympathy. The real person has my sympathy in as much as I can give sympathy to someone I know next to nothing about. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/46 "2005-12-29T21:17:17Z")
\*\*DeadlyAccurate. \*\* That 8 minute bagging video is one of the first things you forget after your “training.” When you bag stuff under actual conditions, you do what customers want. That said, very few people bat an eye if you bag canned goods and chemicals together. I also don’t bag chemicals with paper products like plates or lunch bags. But supermarket shelves are routinely sprayed with pesticides all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/47 "2005-12-29T21:20:21Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s **POISON!** And it’s in a SEALED CONTAINER. That is designed to be PUNCTURE RESISTANT. Are you buying bug spray in a baggie, for Christ sake? I worked my way through high school bagging groceries. I have purchased groceries for over forty years. Not once has a can of bug spray leaked in transit. You are inventing a danger that is virtually non-existent. > [@mswas](#): > > “Was the factor causal to the effect?” > > Now if I beat up the first person I see on the street, calling them a stupid nigger is part of the effect, not part of the cause. Therefore them being black has nothing to do with my “motivation”. > > I think maybe they don’t spend enough time on “cause and effect” in schools. I remember when they taught it in elementary school, I missed the day they talked about it, and I dwelled on the nature of cause an effect for a long time, so now I am capable of performing amazing feats like seperating motivation from method. A careful reading of my post will reveal to you that I did not say that the attack was racially motivated, only that you would be unable to convince anyone that it was not. Beating up a guy while calling him a nigger is pretty much the definition of a hate crime, and your plea that the invective was coincidental to the assault would be doomed to fall on deaf ears. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/48 "2005-12-29T21:41:50Z")
I’m trying to picture what life would be like if we made a federal case out of it every time a white guy used racial epithets while assaulting a black guy… …I am not seeing a downside. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/49 "2005-12-29T21:42:21Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > …it would be nice if the kid admitted he got sprayed by the psycho because he was a dumbass. It’s like he gets to abrogate personal responsibility by playing the race card. > [@mswas](#): > > I get it: > > 1. Kid didn’t deserve what happened to him > 2. There is more to the story than I am aware of > > Incidentally I thought of both of these things before posting. So you say that the kid got sprayed “because he was a dumbass”, that he should “admit” this culpability, and that he is “abrogat[ing] personal responsibility” by not doing so. How can you make those statements when you have decided beforehand (“thought of…before posting”) that the kid “didn’t deserve what happened to him”? Are you not posting something you do not believe in to get a rise out of people? ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/50 "2005-12-29T21:45:57Z")
I’d like to withdraw the final statement of my last post. I have no idea what is going through **mswas’** head and thus cannot make that statement. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/51 "2005-12-29T21:54:48Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > If I were the kid’s manager, and a customer complained that this kid was packing groceries like that, I’d give him a warning, and tell him that the next time, he would be fired, because it’s that serious. It’s the ONLY responsibility he has. The only thing in his job that he can do besides leaving a wet puddle on the floor that could potentially harm the customers. The news article does not specify what kind of employee he was. He could have been the clerk or had a number of other responsibilities (his regular job could have nothing to do with bagging but he was asked to bag to cover someone else, we don’t know). If I were in the clerks shoes and I had someone yelling racial slurs at me (for making an innocent mistake; there’s no indication it was anything else) and spraying bug spray in my face I would also question whether it was racially motivated. True, he could have been angry but he is more than twice the kids age and should know better. [hijack]I must know, [did Christ come back on your birthday](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351340)? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/52 "2005-12-29T21:55:53Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I’m trying to picture what life would be like if we made a federal case out of it every time a white guy used racial epithets while assaulting a black guy… > > …I am not seeing a downside. Yeah, you probably thought I was an overprivileged white male when I was homeless, like so many other jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/53 "2005-12-29T21:59:32Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > The news article does not specify what kind of employee he was. He could have been the clerk or had a number of other responsibilities (his regular job could have nothing to do with bagging but he was asked to bag to cover someone else, we don’t know). > > If I were in the clerks shoes and I had someone yelling racial slurs at me (for making an innocent mistake; there’s no indication it was anything else) and spraying bug spray in my face I would also question whether it was racially motivated. True, he could have been angry but he is more than twice the kids age and should know better. Yeah the older man was quite the tool no doubt about it. Is it so unbelievable that the reason given for the assault was the actual reason? Why does it have to be a race issue at all? > [@](#): > > [hijack]I must know, [did Christ come back on your birthday](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351340)? [/hijack] Yes Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/54 "2005-12-29T22:01:45Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > So you say that the kid got sprayed “because he was a dumbass”, that he should “admit” this culpability, and that he is “abrogat[ing] personal responsibility” by not doing so. How can you make those statements when you have decided beforehand (“thought of…before posting”) that the kid “didn’t deserve what happened to him”? > > Are you not posting something you do not believe in to get a rise out of people? Nope I think playing the race card all the time is irritating. That simple. That’s all there is to it. No hidden agenda. There it is plain as day. I think the kid was assaulted cuz he was stupid. There might have been some latent racial tension involved, I cannot say. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/55 "2005-12-29T22:03:39Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yeah, you probably thought I was an overprivileged white male when I was homeless, like so many other jackasses. **Saoirse** said nothing related to you and didn’t insult you in any way. Privilege is completely irrelevant. A homeless guy screaming racial epithets is just as bad as a rich guy screaming the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/56 "2005-12-29T22:03:57Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > And it’s in a SEALED CONTAINER. That is designed to be PUNCTURE RESISTANT. Are you buying bug spray in a baggie, for Christ sake? I worked my way through high school bagging groceries. I have purchased groceries for over forty years. Not once has a can of bug spray leaked in transit. You are inventing a danger that is virtually non-existent. They train people at Grocery stores not to do it. There is a reason for that. You bag the chemicals seperately from food, it’s not a hard one to grasp. Accept it, move on. > [@](#): > > A careful reading of my post will reveal to you that I did not say that the attack was racially motivated, only that you would be unable to convince anyone that it was not. Beating up a guy while calling him a nigger is pretty much the definition of a hate crime, and your plea that the invective was coincidental to the assault would be doomed to fall on deaf ears. Granted. It’s a good thing I am arguing this on a message board dedicated to flame wars, rather than a court of law, isn’t it? Erek ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/57 "2005-12-29T22:05:15Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > And it’s in a SEALED CONTAINER. That is designed to be PUNCTURE RESISTANT. Are you buying bug spray in a baggie, for Christ sake? I worked my way through high school bagging groceries. I have purchased groceries for over forty years. Not once has a can of bug spray leaked in transit. You are inventing a danger that is virtually non-existent. Here is a can of [bug spray](http://www.killsbugsdead.com/ant-killer/). Note the spray nozzle on the top, is it sealed? Is there a guard on it to ensure it does not spray? Or, is there a push button on top which, when depressed, will issue forth poison? You are saying it is virtually impossible for a button on the top of a can to be depressed in transit. While I will grant that it is unlikely, you have a long way to go to convince me it is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/58 "2005-12-29T22:05:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yeah the older man was quite the tool no doubt about it. Is it so unbelievable that the reason given for the assault was the actual reason? Why does it have to be a race issue at all? The problem is, we don’t know. We didn’t witness the assualt nor do we have enough information to make that judgement. > [@](#): > > Yes Are we going to get more information than just a “yes”? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/59 "2005-12-29T22:13:15Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > **Saoirse** said nothing related to you and didn’t insult you in any way. Privilege is completely irrelevant. A homeless guy screaming racial epithets is just as bad as a rich guy screaming the same thing. My point is that we take the race card too seriously. I am tired of a complicated legal system where there are all these little feel good measures that get passed into law, and are enforced long past their relevance. Assault should have consequences, it should not be relevant what you SAID while assaulting someone. I don’t see how murdering my white girlfriend for cheating on me, is not as bad as murdering a black man for hitting on a white woman. Rage is rage, hate is hate, why should certain types of rage or hate be differentiated legally from other types of rage or hate? If I choose to kill my mother because I hate her, should that be considered a hate crime? If not, why not? Just because there wasn’t some easily identifiable skin deep difference that makes good fodder for a sensationalized case? Why is it important what hateful things I say to someone while I harm them physically? The fact is the guy sprayed someone in the face with insecticide, that’s all that matters, he tried to poison someone. Why should a court see it any differently? If he sprayed insecticide in my face should he get less time than if he sprayed it into the face of a black kid? What if he did it while calling me a stupid cracker? If I got beaten up and mugged by a bunch of black people calling me “whitey”, should those hate crimes laws compound their crime as well? Erek ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/60 "2005-12-29T22:18:45Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Look, if it’s a pesticide sold in a grocery store, it’s not going to be toxic enough to kill anyone. This has got to be one of the stupidest things I’ve read on this board. Bleach, anti-freeze and windshield washer fluid are all sold in grocery stores. Guess they’re not able to kill anyone. :rolleyes: While I was taught when I started working that you NEVER put potentially dangerous stuff in with food, the kid may not have heard his request. As for what his wife said, are you really going to buy her side of it? Her husband is a fucking psycho! He was only guilty of being ignorant or potentially lazy. In that case, the customer should have pointed out to him why they wanted said item bagged separately and if he still ignored them, then managment should be called. Assault is NEVER acceptable in this case. Jesus Christ! Which reminds me, **mswas** , what are you still doing here? Shouldn’t you have been raptured? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592.md?page=4)