# It wasn't racially motivated unless your race is "dumb" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592 "2005-12-29T17:18:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/161 "2006-01-02T21:49:26Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Really? Huh: that’s my preferred term for talking about race. There’s white folk and black folk and other folk; the word “folk” makes the term sound **non** -bitter to my ear. It’s still a neutral-to-positive term. You can pack a lot of sadness, bitterness and anger in any term, my friend. Actually, thinking about it: only my older relatives consistently say “white folks” when they start going on about how wrong white folks did 'em. My generation seems to use “white folks” and “white people” interchangeably or just start cursing. I.e., “those white motherfuckers down on my job…” “that crazy bastard” “that sorry son of a bitch…” etc. **pizzabrat’s** claim that “the slur game doesn’t go both ways” is absolutely true. Here’s some NOT used in the sketch or the song “Colored Spade”: nigras mud people black devils Porch monkeys Gorillas Apes Cotton-picker Watermelon-eater Sambo Rastus Rufus Shine Uncle Remus Uncle Tom Mammy Stud-nigger Coal Blackie Big-nosed Liver-lipped Velcro-headed Swollen-dicked Monkey-tailed Fat-assed For generations, at the very real threat of whippings, lynchings, withheld food or being sold off somewhere, black people in this country weren’t allowed to talk just any ol’ way to white people. Also this society has been trying to actively integrate since the sixties. Whereas racist whites have had 400 years of (mostly) impunity to come up with some really hateful terms. Of course there are more negative names for blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/162 "2006-01-02T22:04:31Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **pizzabrat’s** claim that “the slur game doesn’t go both ways” is absolutely true. That’s a scary and depressing list you got there. I think you’re interpreting **pizzabrat** differently from how I was. I was taking him to mean that there are no slurs used by bigoted black people to describe white people, whereas you seem to be saying that it’s rarer in general for black people to use epithets to describe white people (am I understanding you correctly?) The latter seems plausible to me, but the former does not. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/163 "2006-01-02T22:15:50Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > That’s a scary and depressing list you got there. > > I think you’re interpreting **pizzabrat** differently from how I was. I was taking him to mean that there are no slurs used by bigoted black people to describe white people, whereas you seem to be saying that it’s rarer in general for black people to use epithets to describe white people (am I understanding you correctly?) > > The latter seems plausible to me, but the former does not. > > Daniel “None”, “hardly any”, what’s the difference? Of course I can’t say for a fact that no black people anywhere use anti-white slurs these days, it’s just that I can’t remember hearing any examples of such. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/164 "2006-01-02T22:17:41Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > “None”, “hardly any”, what’s the difference? Of course I can’t say for a fact that no black people anywhere use anti-white slurs these days, it’s just that I can’t remember hearing any examples of such. None at all? You’ve never heard a black person use “redneck”? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/165 "2006-01-02T22:23:00Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > None at all? You’ve never heard a black person use “redneck”? > > Daniel Yes, but if that’s a racial slur, then so is “ghetto”, or “thug”. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/166 "2006-01-02T22:33:24Z")
You also have to remember the history here. Blacks in the US have a long history of oppression and abuse at the hands of whites, even long after their enslavement was ended. Clearly, when a white person uses a racial epithet like “nigger”, it is more hurtful and provocative because of that history, and the negative feelings behind it. When a back person uses a racial epithet like “cracker”, there just isn’t the same sting. It’s meaningless, because there is no point of reference in which any such term can truly be demeaning to most whites. It’s a self-reinforcing imbalance. There will never be as many white slurs as black ones, because they have inherently little impact on their targets. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/167 "2006-01-02T22:38:37Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Yes, but if that’s a racial slur, then so is “ghetto”, or “thug”. I’d say “ghetto” is, since it’s almost never used to describe modern folk (in my experience) except to describe black people disparagingly; but I hear “thug” used to describe white people fairly often. Might be because I play Dungeons and Dragons. Certainly if someone said, “I don’t listen to that ghetto music,” I’d consider that to be a flashing sign of racism; wouldn’t you? More so, in fact, than if someone said, “I don’t listen to that redneck music.” This despite the fact that Johnny Cash makes my playlist a lot more than Public Enemy. Hmm. That’s kind of interesting. **QED** , I definitely agree that the slurs carry different weights. If someone called me a cracker, I’d crack up. My beef was with the idea that there are no anti-white slurs used. On reflection, that’s a pretty trivial beef with a pretty trivial point, so if there’s something more significant to discuss, I’ll happily let it go. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/168 "2006-01-02T22:45:22Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > None at all? You’ve never heard a black person use “redneck”? I’ve rarely heard one use the word perjoratively, in anger, or in hatred. I mean, Jeff Foxworthy grew up in Hapeville, GA, on the other side of Atlanta. It’s definitely not widely used in the African-American vernacular, although we’ve heard the word. Offhand, I can’t think of any contemporary white racial derogatory terms used by blacks. Seriously. Not even “redneck.” There are black men in their late fifties and sixties who use “whitey” “crackers” and “peckerwoods” – esecially if they’ve been to prison – but younger African-Americans have a tendency mostly to just cuss you out and throw “white” in there somewhere. “Motherfucker” is not just for black men anymore. Here’s “proof”: A nice barometer for young black culture is hip-hop music, right? Check out: I’ve just [Googled “hip-hop lyrics” and “redneck” and I get 232,000 hits](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-34%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=hip-hop+lyrics%2C+redneck), mostly white people who rap using “redneck” in a song or song title somewhere. I see Kid Rock… Jeff Foxworthy – Craig Morgan – Gretchen Wilson… There’s an Ice Cube song called “US” where he uses “redneck” but only after using a litany of black racial descriptors stereotyping blacks. It’s not used much at all. (On Preview) I’ve re-evaluated my own use of the word “racism.” Saying, “I don’t listen to that ghetto music” is most likely a classist assessment, and a prejudiced one, rather than racist or bigoted. I say that because there are PLENTY of bourgie black people don’t listen to that ghetto music either. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/169 "2006-01-02T22:58:18Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > (On Preview) I’ve re-evaluated my own use of the word “racism.” Saying, “I don’t listen to that ghetto music” is most likely a classist assessment, and a prejudiced one, rather than racist or bigoted. I say that because there are PLENTY of bourgie black people don’t listen to that ghetto music either. Interesting–and it really does get into a nasty area where race and class intersect. The last three times I’ve heard a white person use the word “nigger,” they were really using it in a classist sense–and the two of them that I gave a chance to explain themselves defended themselves on classist grounds. Nevertheless, I’m sure you’ve heard bourgie blackfolk talk about ghetto music, but were they ever referring to klezmer music? [Montgomery Gentry](http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/statusainthood/archives/2005/11/countrys_rightw_1.php)? Or were they always referring to the music of poor **black** people? When a comment disparages a particular subgroup that’s defined by both race and class, it seems to me that it’s hard to figure out whether it’s racist or classist or both or neither. (I’m not ignoring the rest of your post; instead, I’m thinking about it.) Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/170 "2006-01-02T23:17:19Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Nevertheless, I’m sure you’ve heard bourgie blackfolk talk about ghetto music, but were they ever referring to klezmer music? [Montgomery Gentry](http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/statusainthood/archives/2005/11/countrys_rightw_1.php)? Or were they always referring to the music of poor **black** people? Whatchoo think, man? 😃 Laaaaast time my cousin took out Dr. Dre’s “The Chronic” and flipped the radio dial to Skee-Lo’s “I Wish I Was A Baller” I almost kicked out the car windshield. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/171 "2006-01-03T00:14:08Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Whatchoo think, man? I’m thinking that next time I put on the Klezmatics, I’m gonna say, “I got me some great ghetto music here!” Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/172 "2006-01-03T00:22:42Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Whatchoo think, man? 😃 Laaaaast time my cousin took out Dr. Dre’s “The Chronic” and flipped the radio dial to Skee-Lo’s “I Wish I Was A Baller” I almost kicked out the car windshield. Did some white kid come along and start shaking his ass? 😛 [sub]I kid! I kid![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/173 "2006-01-03T00:24:18Z")
Note to self: Do NOT let **Left Hand Of Dorkness** DJ your next party. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/174 "2006-01-03T00:25:26Z")
**Guinastasia.** … I aine never gonna live that down… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/175 "2006-01-03T00:30:00Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **Guinastasia.** … I aine never gonna live that down… :smack: You might as well make that your sig. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/176 "2006-01-03T00:40:42Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Why?! I don’t know everything, but I’ve heard (and read on messageboards) blacks saying anti-white things, but I’ve never heard any slurs. OTOH, I’ve heard a variety of anti-black slurs coming from whites in my adult life, including brand new ones (“golfer” anyone?). If you know of any anti-white slurs in current use then why don’t you tell us what they are? “golfer”? What’s wrong with calling someone a “golfer”? Is there some hidden meaning to that? I keep thinking Tiger Woods, but now I’m scared to call him a golfer! ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/177 "2006-01-03T00:45:58Z")
> **[Urban Dictionary: Golfer](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Golfer)** > > A girl/woman who squeezes their arms together which causes their boobs push against each other and cause more cleavage to show. This results in them look like they're golfing. Guess: a reference to black male blonde female interracial couples. Might have been a “Sammy” a generation ago. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592/178 "2006-01-03T01:54:37Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **Guinastasia.** … I aine never gonna live that down… :smack: Nor should you want to-that was one of the best threads of 2005. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-wasnt-racially-motivated-unless-your-race-is-dumb/337592.md?page=8)