# Italian cuisine is overrated **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800 "2011-10-06T16:56:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/41 "2011-10-06T22:24:33Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s fine, as long as you sell me your scraps’n’carbs cheap. If you are going to sell me a plate of rice for twenty bucks, though, there better be more than some stock and a couple mushrooms in it. Agreed. This is why fancy Italian restaurants make no sense to me. I mean, I made risotto at home last week. Rice, stock, a few ounces of cheese. How can you sell a plate of risotto for more than two fifty? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/42 "2011-10-06T22:31:13Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Agreed. This is why fancy Italian restaurants make no sense to me. > > I mean, I made risotto at home last week. Rice, stock, a few ounces of cheese. How can you sell a plate of risotto for more than two fifty? Honestly, if restaurants actually make it correctly, and not just serve a pile of rice and call it “risotto”, I’m happy to pay $10-$15 for it. Risotto, in my experience, is one of the most abused dishes in Italian cuisine. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/43 "2011-10-06T22:33:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I agree, but mostly because I think pasta is a scam. > > I can buy a box of the same Barilla pasta every restaurant in the US uses for around $1.00. There is no way I’m paying another $15 or so far a half-cup of sauce. You aren’t paying $15 for half a cup of sauce. You’re paying for SOMEONE ELSE to do the cooking, the serving, and the cleaning up. Plus you’re paying for the rent and the furniture. And the better Italian restaurants make their own pasta. I have to say that most Italian restaurants that I’ve been to server quite mediocre food. I doubt that I spend as much to make 12 servings of lasagna as I’d spend to buy one serving from a restaurant…and MY lasagna is ever so much better. Sometimes the restaurants have fantastic bread, sometimes mediocre bread. I think that the problem is that a lot of places buy their supplies and ingredients and even meals from the same suppliers, so that even if you go to different places, the dishes will taste pretty much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/44 "2011-10-06T22:35:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I mean, I made risotto at home last week. Rice, stock, a few ounces of cheese. How can you sell a plate of risotto for more than two fifty? Risotto is expensive because of the prep, not the ingredients. I am usually wary of ordering risotto in a restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/45 "2011-10-06T22:49:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Honestly, if restaurants actually make it correctly, and not just serve a pile of rice and call it “risotto”, I’m happy to pay $10-$15 for it. Risotto, in my experience, is one of the most abused dishes in Italian cuisine. Amen. I never order it, because it always comes out piled up on the plate. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/46 "2011-10-06T22:51:01Z")
Here’s a restaurant in Bologna that [TripAdvisor](http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187801-d812079-Reviews-Marco_Fadiga_Bistrot-Bologna_Emilia_Romagna.html) says has Fusion and Italian cuisines. Here’s the link to the restaurant’s website: [Marco Fadiga Bistrot](http://www.marcofadigabistrot.com/). And here’s the Google translation of the menu: > [@](#): > > First course: > Noodles with beans, shallots and crisp bacon > Noodles with cabbage, shrimp and bacon > Risotto with scallops and a light pesto > Risotto with saffron and squid ink > Ravioli stuffed with shrimp cream peas > Tortellini with homemade beef stock > Gratin of macaroni with sauce of braise > > Main course: > Barigoule rabbit with soft polenta with black truffle > The “Mac Fadiga,” a famous sandwich revisited by us > Crunchy mille-feuille of turbot with asparagus, tomatoes and oranges > Tartare of sea bass with pine nuts, ginger and fresh mango > Couscous pheasant with pear “sweet-strong” > > Dessert: > Light cream waffles with rum sauce with dried fruit and Cohiba cigars > Just spicy dark chocolate marquise with pistachio sauce natural > Warm strawberry soup with basil ice cream flower > Parfait with candied fruit and caramelized hazelnuts with grapefruit Same old, same old, right? Okay, the ratings aren’t great, so maybe the new Italian cuisine is overrated, but not boring. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/47 "2011-10-06T23:54:16Z")
Me, I’m baffled by the assertion that Italian food hasn’t embraced globalization. Consider: If there’s one single ingredient that defines modern Italian food, it’s the tomato. Which isn’t even native to the Old World. It’s not that Italian food isn’t globalized; it’s just that it finished globalizing centuries before anyone even thought of the word “globalization”. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/48 "2011-10-07T01:11:04Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t much like salsa. It’s OK, not bad. But most of the people I know RAVE about salsa, like it’s all that and a bag of potato chips. So, good, but overrated. Ahem! All that and a bag of **tortilla chips** , obviously. Sheesh. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/49 "2011-10-07T02:57:26Z")
Chronos - I love your post. how come other people always say what I want to say so much more concisely! ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/50 "2011-10-07T08:12:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > As to the OP, I like Italian food, especially northern Italian. It’s great stuff, but I generally prefer the cuisines of France, Mexico, and any of a number of Asian countries to it. Yes. I like Italian a lot of Italian food. It just isn’t the best cuisine in the entire world, which the hype in the rest of the West would have you believe. In particular, it pales in comparison with e.g. French cuisine. > [@Chronos](#): > > Me, I’m baffled by the assertion that Italian food hasn’t embraced globalization. Consider: If there’s one single ingredient that defines modern Italian food, it’s the tomato. Which isn’t even native to the Old World. Sure, like I said in the OP, Italian cuisine ossified about 150 years ago. Of course you can point to the use of tomato, chilli and milk of the water buffalo in various Italian recipes (though, with respect, actual Italian cuisine uses the tomato a lot less than “Italian” cuisine does in the likes of the UK and US: a real ragu, for instance, isn’t the tomato soup slop you get elsewhere). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/51 "2011-10-07T10:43:54Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > It just isn’t the best cuisine in the entire world, which the hype in the rest of the West would have you believe. _Is_ it, though? If asked, I’d automatically say “French”, not “Italian”. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/52 "2011-10-07T11:22:33Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Err, what? Bologna’s cuisine _is_ the regional cuisine of Emilia-Romagna. It’s the capital of the region, so goods have been shipped here for centuries from both Emilia and Romagna and incorporated into the dishes. You can’t be seriously suggesting that Balsamic vinegar, the product of Bologna’s neighbouring town, is not a part of Bolognese cuisine, can you? Let me get this straight. You think Bologna can automatically claim as its own all of the cuisine of the Emilia Romagna region? That’s quaint, but wholly unconnected to reality. Modena is not Bologna. Parma is not Bologna. Balsamic vinegar and parmesan cheese are used all over Italy. You think Bologna has some special claim to them just because it’s a little closer to those cities than it is to, say, Florence? How long have you been in Italy, and how much have you traveled? I’ve been here for 25 years, and have sampled the cooking from Trentino to Sicily. You know, it just sounds to me like you don’t like the food where you live. Which is fine. However, it’s a large stretch to expand that to “Italian cuisine is overrated.” ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/53 "2011-10-07T11:59:08Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > Let me get this straight. You think Bologna can automatically claim as its own all of the cuisine of the Emilia Romagna region? Pretty much, yes, in the same way that Roman cuisine claims sugo all’amatriciana as its own, despite being invented, well, not in Rome. Parma ham, Balsamic vinegar, and so on, is a quintessential aspect of Bolognese cuisine. Many Bolognese dishes make heavy use of the likes of Parma ham, cheese, balsamic vinegar and so on (e.g. cotoletta alla bolognese) in a way that the cuisine from other regions doesn’t. I have to admit I got a bit of a snigger out of a guy who, until yesterday, could only really name ragu bolognese as a dish from the city trying to pass himself off as an expert on the cuisine, though. > [@](#): > > Balsamic vinegar and parmesan cheese are used all over Italy. You think Bologna has some special claim to them just because it’s a little closer to those cities than it is to, say, Florence? Yes. They’re in the same region for a start, of which Bologna’s the capital, and share largely the same cuisine. There are no dishes from Modena, Ferrarra, nor Parma that are not present in Bolognese cuisine (they’re named differently, though), and vice versa. The cuisine is that of the region, not the city itself. > [@](#): > > How long have you been in Italy, and how much have you traveled? I’ve been here for 25 years, and have sampled the cooking from Trentino to Sicily. Bully for you. I’ve been here 14 months and travelled around enough to be able to appraise the situation. I’m not a self confessed gastronomist who has only visited his supposed favourite foody destination once in 20 years, despite only living across the border in France. > [@](#): > > You know, it just sounds to me like you don’t like the food where you live. Which is fine. However, it’s a large stretch to expand that to “Italian cuisine is overrated.” I’ve travelled to the Veneto multiple times. I’ve travelled to Tuscany multiple times (37 minutes away on the train to Florence). I’ve travelled to Piedmont multiple times. In short, I’ve been pretty much everywhere in Northern Italy. Further, there’s enough Pugliese restaurants in Bologna serving Pugliese food to Pugliese immigrants that I’m more than firmly acquainted with the cuisine. Believe me, Bolognese cuisine more than holds its own against other Italian cuisines. Yet, it’s still overrated. No offence, but your posts are seemingly just one iteration of “but you’ve not been here long enough!” or “but you’ve never tried true Italian cuisine”. Complete bullshit, I’m afraid. You like it. I get it. I like it too. But it’s overrated. It isn’t as great as every tourist who has ever visited Italy (the majority of them who travel to the Midlands or Northern Italy, not Puglia, I should point out) makes it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/54 "2011-10-07T12:34:17Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Pretty much, yes, in the same way that Roman cuisine claims sugo all’amatriciana as its own, despite being invented, well, not in Rome. Parma ham, Balsamic vinegar, and so on, is a quintessential aspect of Bolognese cuisine. Many Bolognese dishes make heavy use of the likes of Parma ham, cheese, balsamic vinegar and so on (e.g. cotoletta alla bolognese) in a way that the cuisine from other regions doesn’t. > > I have to admit I got a bit of a snigger out of a guy who, until yesterday, could only really name ragu bolognese as a dish from the city trying to pass himself off as an expert on the cuisine, though. > Yes. They’re in the same region for a start, of which Bologna’s the capital, and share largely the same cuisine. There are no dishes from Modena, Ferrarra, nor Parma that are not present in Bolognese cuisine (they’re named differently, though), and vice versa. The cuisine is that of the region, not the city itself. > > Bully for you. I’ve been here 14 months and travelled around enough to be able to appraise the situation. I’m not a self confessed gastronomist who has only visited his supposed favourite foody destination once in 20 years, despite only living across the border in France. > I’ve travelled to the Veneto multiple times. I’ve travelled to Tuscany multiple times (37 minutes away on the train to Florence). I’ve travelled to Piedmont multiple times. In short, I’ve been pretty much everywhere in Northern Italy. Further, there’s enough Pugliese restaurants in Bologna serving Pugliese food to Pugliese immigrants that I’m more than firmly acquainted with the cuisine. Believe me, Bolognese cuisine more than holds its own against other Italian cuisines. Yet, it’s still overrated. > > No offence, but your posts are seemingly just one iteration of “but you’ve not been here long enough!” or “but you’ve never tried true Italian cuisine”. Complete bullshit, I’m afraid. You like it. I get it. I like it too. But it’s overrated. It isn’t as great as every tourist who has ever visited Italy (the majority of them who travel to the Midlands or Northern Italy, not Puglia, I should point out) makes it out to be. Sigh. Of course you know better than I. Whatever was I thinking, that my 25 years in Italy might have given me some measure of experience? I’m sure your 14 months have made you an expert in Italian cuisine. If you think you’re eating “real” cuisine in restaurants, think again. Go eat in people’s homes, then report back. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/55 "2011-10-07T12:49:38Z")
I think there’s another factor in play here; in the past couple of decades or so, extremely good Italian food has become available outside of Italy and a few Italian immigrant enclaves. What I’m driving at, is that you may go to a higher-end local Italian food restaurant, and end up with food on par with what you might find in Florence or Bologna. I ran into this very phenomenon when my wife and I went to Italy last year. The food was excellent, but kind of a letdown in some ways, because it wasn’t any _better_ than what we could get at a local Dallas place (Daniele Osteria). Sure, it was cheaper, more plentiful, and there were more things on the menu, but overall, the Italian food and the Dallas Italian food were in the same ballpark in terms of quality, freshness, skill of preparation, etc… A lot of it is a matter of personal taste as well. I imagine if you grew up on Chicago-style pizza, Italian pizza wouldn’t be “right” to you, any more than say… Alabama or Kansas City style barbecue just is not "right"to me, having grown up on Texas style barbecue. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/56 "2011-10-07T12:53:56Z")
> [@Nathan S](#): > > Sigh. Of course you know better than I. Whatever was I thinking, that my 25 years in Italy might have given me some measure of experience? I’m sure your 14 months have made you an expert in Italian cuisine. Sorry, you’re right. I need to wait at least 15 months before I can judge what I’m eating. Or was it 21 months? Can you give me some estimate of when I stop being a gastronomic parvenu and become a learned master, just like you? I mean, at some point in your vaunted 25 year sojourn in Italy, you must have stopped being a naif, unable to appreciate the complexities of the food set before him, and become the master you are today, right? > [@Nathan S](#): > > If you think you’re eating “real” cuisine in restaurants, think again. Go eat in people’s homes, then report back. I live with three Italians from opposite ends of the country (Emilia Romagna, Marche and Calabria). Perhaps I’ve just not eaten with enough Italians? How many more do I need to eat with, in your estimation? ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/57 "2011-10-07T12:56:43Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > Bologna? Heck, you’re just a hop, skip and a jump down the A14 from me. I’ve never heard anyone say that the best Italian food is in your area. Bologna is noted for its ragù, but, so far as I know, not for much else. If you want good eating, go to Tuscany, or Puglia, or … well, lots of other places. Sicily. IMO. Nearly died of joy/artery blockage. Ciao from Padova, btw. Come and try spaghetti with squid ink in Venice. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. I love Italian food and I though the food in the UK was dreadful across the board. Lived there for five years but am not from either country so have no stake. Do think it is funny how Italians seems to think eating a curry means you’re wildly adventurous and bohemian. So you really think a half dead Tesco sandwich is better than a piadino…each to their own, I suppose. _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/58 "2011-10-07T13:00:39Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > If you think you’re eating “real” cuisine in restaurants, think again. Go eat in people’s homes, then report back. Seconded. I Italian food’s strong point is in what average people eat every day (i.e. really well) rather than in high-end restaurant food. I think the difference between a good UK restaurant and a good Italian restaurant wouldn’t be huge. But the difference between an average UK person at home and an average Italian person at home? Night and day. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/59 "2011-10-07T13:02:50Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > So you really think a half dead Tesco sandwich is better than a piadino…each to their own, I suppose. _shrugs_ Nobody mentioned Tesco other than you. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800/60 "2011-10-07T13:05:38Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Sorry, you’re right. I need to wait at least 15 months before I can judge what I’m eating. Or was it 21 months? Can you give me some estimate of when I stop being a gastronomic parvenu and become a learned master, just like you? I mean, at some point in your vaunted 25 year sojourn in Italy, you must have stopped being a naif, unable to appreciate the complexities of the food set before him, and become the master you are today, right? > > I live with three Italians from opposite ends of the country (Emilia Romagna, Marche and Calabria). Perhaps I’ve just not eaten with enough Italians? How many more do I need to eat with, in your estimation? Learned master? Gee, thanks, but there’s really no need. 😃 I just mean that, obviously, I’ve been around the boot more than you have. C’mon, don’t you think experience counts for anything? It does in the bedroom, and I think it does in the kitchen, too. 🙂 Of course, there’s that pesky question of individual taste, and that’s what I suspect is working here. I’m glad to see you have Italian roommates. Have you been to Le Marche or Calabria, to their homes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-cuisine-is-overrated/598800.md?page=4)