# Italian mob in the USA **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049 "2005-10-13T12:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/1 "2005-10-13T12:38:49Z")
Is the Italian mob still a powerful organisation in the USA? Or have all the Italians become stock brokers and IT consultants and the mob business taken over by other ethnic immigrant groups? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/2 "2005-10-13T15:27:24Z")
The mob makes billions upon billions, all told. However, it was never really a terribly criminal organization. Even at its height, it made a very large portion of tis money legally (more or less). And its most profitable enterprises were things like gambling parlors or speakeasies. In the modern era, some of the younger mobsters are getting into things like the grud trade, but mostly its moved into investment and so on. More money, less hassle. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/3 "2005-10-13T15:31:40Z")
There is a historical pattern for organized crime in the US: a downtrodden ethnic class gets involved in it, but, it becomes a method for social mobility. The children of mobsters begin to get respectable jobs. Meanwhile, another ethnic group slowly takes their place. For instance, if you go back about 100 years, organized crime was heavily Irish. The Italians pushed them out; now other ethnic groups are taking over. Note that those who go into crime are only a small percentage of that particular ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/4 "2005-10-13T15:32:59Z")
Although the Italians got most of the Hollywood movies, there were actually any number of ethnicities engaging in organized crime at its height. There were actually quite a few Jewish and Irish groups as well, and I’m sure just about every immigrant group has some bad apples. These days the Italian groups are a shadow of their former selves. In my city there was a series of small “mob wars” for succession and territory in the 70s-early 90s which ended up getting most of the primary figures killed or jailed. It also showed most of them to be ineffective idiots, with most “hits” taking 3,4,5,6 tries and multiple bullets each time; these guys need to visit a firing range or something. These days I doubt they run more than some modest gambling operations, possibly a little prostitution. I don’t know about other areas of the country but reportedly they stay away from the drug trade here, which they frown upon as low class or destructive. I live in South Philly (the home of what was once one of the larger Ital-Amer communities in the country, and where my Italian-Amer grandfather grew up once off the boat) and I simply have a hard time taking the survivors/hold-outs seriously anymore. Italian-Americans are pretty much considered “white” now in the US (this wasn’t always the case in the early immigration years) and have largely intermarried with other (mostly) Catholics. There are a lot of people with names like (making these up) “Colleen Riccobene” or “Teresa O’Reilly” in my neighborhood. 😃 There simply aren’t as many “Italian” neighborhoods anymore with people having intermarried and moved into the suburbs. It’s the American Melting Pot (actually more of a mosaic really) at work. The vast majority of Italian-Americans were always honest and hard-working, holding real jobs, and a good number of them have resented the attachment of organized crime to their ethnic group alone. You will however always meet some idiot who clams they have a Sicilian cousin who you’ll have to deal with if you don’t stop looking at his girlfriend or park too close to his car or something, but I have no fear of these people beyond the fact that idiots in general can be dangerous. Most organized crime in the US now is home-grown, drug selling gangs white (especially bikers), black and Latino. As you always have a small element of criminals in any ethnic group, the ethnic-specific organized crime these days appears to be Russian, Albanian, Chinese, Cambodian, Dominican, etc etc… ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/5 "2005-10-13T15:58:43Z")
Ther is not now, nor has there ever been, an Italian mob or mafia in America. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/6 "2005-10-13T16:18:14Z")
Well, organized crime does tend to get overdramatized for the movies. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, or that Italians didn’t participate in it to some extent. My own grandfather was born in Caserta, and came to America in 1915. He worked for decades in the numbers racket in a little mill town in Pennsylvania. He just died last year. His grandchildren run the gamut from convenience store clerks and construction laborers to engineers, a lawyer and an executive for a major American sports association. None of us participate in any way in organized crime. As this family has gone, so have many other Italian-American families. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/7 "2005-10-13T16:32:51Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > The mob makes billions upon billions, all told. However, it was never really a terribly criminal organization. Even at its height, it made a very large portion of tis money legally (more or less). And its most profitable enterprises were things like gambling parlors or speakeasies. > > In the modern era, some of the younger mobsters are getting into things like the grud trade, but mostly its moved into investment and so on. More money, less hassle. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/8 "2005-10-13T16:37:48Z")
**smiling bandit:** > [@](#): > > The mob makes billions upon billions, all told. However, it was never really a terribly criminal organization. Even at its height, it made a very large portion of tis money legally (more or less). And its most profitable enterprises were things like gambling parlors or speakeasies. > > In the modern era, some of the younger mobsters are getting into things like the grud trade, but mostly its moved into investment and so on. More money, less hassle. **newcrasher:** > [@](#): > > Ther is not now, nor has there ever been, an Italian mob or mafia in America. Gotta love this place… ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/9 "2005-10-13T22:50:49Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Is the Italian mob still a powerful organisation in the USA? Or have all the Italians become stock brokers and IT consultants and the mob business taken over by other ethnic immigrant groups? The U.S. Government [says :](http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/lcn/lcn.htm) Today the La Cosa Nostra is involved in a broad spectrum of illegal activities. These include murder, extortion, drug trafficking, corruption of public officials, gambling, infiltration of legitimate businesses, labor racketeering, loan sharking, prostitution, pornography, tax fraud schemes, and most notably today, stock manipulation schemes ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/10 "2005-10-13T23:19:15Z")
John Gotti Jr. says he’s on the straight and narrow now. Thanks to the Feds the Gambinos are pretty much toast so going straight would be the smart thing to do. Unfortunately nobody (including his late dad) ever accused Jr. of being smart. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/11 "2005-10-14T04:35:20Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > These days the Italian groups are a shadow of their former selves. In my city there was a series of small “mob wars” for succession and territory in the 70s-early 90s which ended up getting most of the primary figures killed or jailed. It also showed most of them to be ineffective idiots, with most “hits” taking 3,4,5,6 tries and multiple bullets each time; these guys need to visit a firing range or something. These days I doubt they run more than some modest gambling operations, possibly a little prostitution > I live in South Philly (the home of what was once one of the larger Ital-Amer communities in the country, and where my Italian-Amer grandfather grew up once off the boat) and I simply have a hard time taking the survivors/hold-outs seriously anymore. I live in northeast Philly. I second the above. The La Cosa Nostra is something of a joke now. An LCN member, speaking under the condition of anonymity, told a reporter that there was a new boss who had big plans and was smart enough to avoid the attention of the press and the cops. IMO, utter crap. The empty bravado of a dying organization. > [@](#): > > Most organized crime in the US now is home-grown, drug selling gangs white (especially bikers), This year the Pagans and the Warlocks have been fighting for territory > [@](#): > > black and Latino. The Latin Kings have been slowly moving into the area over the past few years. > [@](#): > > As you always have a small element of criminals in any ethnic group, the ethnic-specific organized crime these days appears to be Russian Ex-Soviets have really moved in to fill the organized crime void. They form organizations only long enough to get a job done and do not operate in ‘families’. They prefer crimes that target corporations, especially insurance fraud. A restaurant/nightclub in my neighborhood was raided. The cops found a few Mafioskis operating a drug ring. > [@](#): > > Albanian, Chinese, Cambodian, Dominican, etc etc… There have been reports of a militant Vietnamese gang moving in. I can’t remember their name except that it was just a series of numbers and letters MT237 or something. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/12 "2005-10-14T04:57:08Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > some of the younger mobsters are getting into things like the grud trade But what do they trade the gruds _for_? GRUDS - just say ON! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/13 "2005-10-14T11:22:37Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > GRUDS - just say ON! Damn, that’s funny. I’m just finishing [Five Families](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312300948/qid=1129288727/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7542179-4455900?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). I highly recommend it. BTW, La Cosa Nostra is not correct (although it is what the FBI uses). Cosa Nostra means “Our Thing”. “The Our Thing” just sounds silly. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-mob-in-the-usa/326049/14 "2005-10-14T12:48:12Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > BTW, La Cosa Nostra is not correct (although it is what the FBI uses). Cosa Nostra means “Our Thing”. “The Our Thing” just sounds silly. I’ve heard that a more accurate translation would be “The Thing of Ours,” or “This Thing of Ours.”