# Italian Poet from the 13th Century \[in Dylan song\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012 "2004-02-19T15:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ad\_the\_Inhaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/34f0e0/32.png) [@Ad\_the\_Inhaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ad_the_Inhaler)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/1 "2004-02-19T15:09:07Z")
Who is the Italian poet from the 13th century from Bob Dylan’s “Tangled Up in Blue”? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/2 "2004-02-19T15:24:54Z")
I remember reading about this a while back. I believe even Bob Dylan doesn’t seem to know the answer to this question. When asked about it Bob dylan said it was Plutarch, which cannot be since he was a greek philosopher and essayist from the 1st century C.E. It is said that it could have been Petrarch, an italian poet, but he lived in the middle of the 14th century. Another theory is that Bob was talkign about Dante whom was born in the 13th century. ---
**Author:** ![Ad\_the\_Inhaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/34f0e0/32.png) [@Ad\_the\_Inhaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ad_the_Inhaler)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/3 "2004-02-19T15:33:45Z")
thanks, so i guess we don’t know which “words rang true”, either… ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/4 "2004-02-19T16:45:49Z")
There’s been [a deal of discussion about this](http://www.expectingrain.com/dok/who/i/italianpoet.html) in _rec.music.dylan_. Clearly even Dylan can’t be trusted on the details, but as “Plutarch” is so close to Petrarch, and [Petrarca’s Love Sonnets](http://italian.about.com/library/weekly/aa021600a.htm) fit the mood and description far better than Dante, I’d just guess he got the century wrong as well. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/5 "2004-02-19T16:53:16Z")
Maybe Dyaln – \ – _made the line up_! With no one in particular in mind, simply because he liked the image. I know. Such a concept is inconcievable. Everything in the world has to be taken literally. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/6 "2004-02-19T17:01:12Z")
I was going to ask the very same question as this today as well. ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/7 "2004-02-19T17:23:13Z")
God knows, I don’t want to try to get too far into Dylan’s creative process, but it would definitely seem like a bad idea to take it too literally. On the song’s own terms, it’s the stream of consciousness memories of a drifter recalling a book he read while stoned on hash, in the company of a beautiful woman who possibly, depending on what you make of the chronology, just picked him up at a topless bar. He could have been reading the phone book and grooving on the wonderful 13th century Italian poetry for all we know. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/8 "2004-02-19T17:27:12Z")
It’s pretty understandable that Dylan would make this mistake about a poet born in 1304 whose verse was dedicated to Laura, the love of his life. He constantly rearranged the verses of _Laura in Life_ and _Laura in Death_ (366 poems mostly sonnets). The theme of hopeless unrequited love seems appropriate to the subject matter of _Blood On The Tracks_ Here is how the attribution to Plutarch came about in a 1995 interview in Australia: Craig; I’ve always thought ‘Tangled Up in Blue’ was a great song. I really like it. Dylan : Yeah, I like that one too. Craig : Without knowing anything about it, I half assumed that Blue might be Joan Baez. Dylan : Joni Mitchell had an album out called ‘Blue’. And it affected me, I couldn’t get it out of my head. And it just stayed in my head and when I wrote that song I wondered, what’s that mean ? And then I figured that it was just there, and I guess that’s what happened, y’know. Craig : It’s not the same ‘blue’ as in ‘it’s all over now baby blue’ ? Dylan : No, no. That’s a different blue. That’s a character right off the hay wagon. That Baby Blue is from right upstairs at the barber shop, y’know off the street…a different baby blue, I haven’t run into her in a long time, long time. Craig : You’re being serious ? Dylan : Yeah, I’ve never looked at Joan Baez as being Baby Blue. Craig : Do you see much of her these days ? Dylan : (pause) She was on two tours with me. I haven’t seen her since then. She went to Europe. Craig : You involved in her ? Dylan : No, No … Craig : Listening to ‘tangled up in blue’, I got the feeling, it’s like an autobiography; a sort of funny, wry, compressed novel… Dylan : Yeah, that’s the first I ever wrote that I felt free enough to change all the …what is it, the tenses around, is that what it is? Craig : the person… Dylan : The he and the she and the I and the you, and the we and the us-- I figured it was all the same anyway-- I could throw them all in where they floated right-- and it works on that level. Craig : Its got those nice lines at the end, about ’ there was music in the cafes at night and revolution in the air’ and ’ some are mathematicians, some are carpenters wives, I don’t know how it all got started, I don’t know what they do with their lives’. Dylan : I like that song. Yeah that poet from the 13th century… Craig : Who was that ? Dylan : Plutarch. Is that his name ? Craig : Yeah. Are there a lot of dylanologists around still in the states ? Dylan : I don’t pay much attention to that. I get over-enthusiastic fans. But I never did pay much mind to that.- Bob doesn’t sound like it’s an unrelated image or that he has a good grasp on names but it seems to be puposeful. ---
**Author:** ![joew9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@joew9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joew9)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/9 "2016-10-13T13:50:41Z")
As to which poet I can’t say. I believe he took liberties with the century for the sake of pronunciation. Try singing it with other centuries. Thirteenth seems to work best for me while with others I get slightly tongue tied. The “th” has two quick bounces on the tongue. “The thirteenth …” The Beatles took big liberties with words to bounce easily on the tongue and lips. McCartney’s Monkberry Moon Delight is my favorite example. There are many others Beatles lyrics that don’t make sense or are even contradictory but are a joy to pronounce. But what makes Bob such a great poet is he creates lyrics that flow well on the tongue but still make sense and have meanings. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/10 "2016-10-13T14:34:42Z")
Let a guy win a Nobel Prize and the zombies come out of the woodwork. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/11 "2016-10-13T16:12:46Z")
Let’s move this to Cafe Society. Title edited to better indicate subject. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![KCMTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@KCMTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCMTL)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/12 "2016-10-16T14:36:19Z")
Sounds like Petrarch (1304-1374) is the most likely candidate. What we call the 14th Century, the Italians call the trecento, i.e., the 1300s, so it’s easy to imagine calling him “an Italian poet from the 13th Century”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/13 "2016-10-16T15:10:51Z")
> [@raygirvan](#): > > There’s been [a deal of discussion about this](http://www.expectingrain.com/dok/who/i/italianpoet.html) in _rec.music.dylan_. Clearly even Dylan can’t be trusted on the details, but as “Plutarch” is so close to Petrarch, and [Petrarca’s Love Sonnets](http://italian.about.com/library/weekly/aa021600a.htm) fit the mood and description far better than Dante, I’d just guess he got the century wrong as well. I only just started listening to Dylan a little more closely, and Petrarch seemed like the obvious reference to me, with the dates fudged a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Gelidii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Gelidii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gelidii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-poet-from-the-13th-century-in-dylan-song/230012/14 "2017-12-19T01:54:28Z")
We can’t know, but I’d give Dylan more credit than mispronouncing “Petrarch” (a 14th century Italian poet) for “Plutarch,” (ancient Greek historian) as he did in an interview. Sonnets often speak of love, and Petrarch is often wrongly credited with inventing the form. It was actually invented by Lentini-an Italian poet from the 13th century. If Dylan’s playing us, the right answer might be Lentini who, in one of his most famous poems, “A Vision,” wrote “A Vision of that lady, who is raying light … In lips she sets the laugh confusing … That no one could be compared … in them you’ll see the burning love” Giacomo Da Lentini, 1210-1260, Poet. Some parallels here with “raying light” to a “burner on the stove,” as well as with the confusion Dylan expresses in feeling “uneasy.” Just a guess. Lentini had enormous influence on poets to follow, including the 13th/14th century master, Dante…whose work seems to expansive for the song’s reference.