# Italian pronunciation **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083 "2003-11-08T15:55:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/1 "2003-11-08T15:55:39Z")
I’m wondering about the pronunciation of a couple of Italian words. Calzone – “cal-ZONE”, or “cal-ZONE-e”? Zabaglione – “zab-al-YONE”, or “zab-al-YONE-e”? I tend to voice the final “e” (as in “Porsche”) because my second language in school was German and it’s a habit. Also, the first time I heard both of the Italian words they were pronounced with the final “e”. But it seems as if most people here in So. Cal. do not voice the final “e”. In watching French films, I’ve noticed that phrases like “Je t’aime” are pronounced with the final “e” (“je TEM-e”) or without (“je TEM”). And I know that different regions in Germany have different pronunciations of the “ch” (“ish” vs. “ichh” – sort of like a hiss). So is it possible that “calzone” and “zabaglione” are pronounced differently in different parts of Italy? If so, what parts? What _are_ the correct pronunciations for “calzone” and “zabaglione”? (As I said, I do use the final “e”.) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/2 "2003-11-08T16:00:29Z")
I don’t speak Italian, but my missus does and I just got back from Rome, so I can say with some confidence that you do say the final E, as though it were an é in French. “Thank you” - “grazie” - is pronounced “GRA-tzi-é”. Don’t know about regional variations. Italian seems to be much more phonetic than a lot of other languages, once you know the rules, some of which are counterintuitive to English - e.g. “bruscheta” is pronounced “broos-KE-ta” and “bacco” is pronounced “BA-cho”, something a lot of English speakers get back to front. ---
**Author:** ![Apollon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@Apollon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/3 "2003-11-08T16:13:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\* > Calzone – “cal-ZONE”, or “cal-ZONE-e”? > Zabaglione – “zab-al-YONE”, or “zab-al-YONE-e”? > \*\* kal-TSO-neh tza-bal-yON-eh the final “eh” is pronounced as in “bed”. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/4 "2003-11-08T17:15:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I don’t speak Italian, but my missus does and I just got back from Rome, so I can say with some confidence that you do say the final E, as though it were an é in French. “Thank you” - “grazie” - is pronounced “GRA-tzi-é”. \*\* I think you mean “as though it were an è in French.” That’s an _accent grave_ not an _accent aigu_. \*\* > [@](#): > > … and “bacco” is pronounced "BA-cho…\*\* I think you’re wrong here. Since the second ‘c’ is followed by an ‘o’ it gets a hard sound. Maybe _boccia_ would have been a better example. 🙂 As for the OP hearing trailing e’s sounded in French: Only for emphasis or when singing, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/5 "2003-11-08T19:10:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\* “bacco” is pronounced “BA-cho” \*\* To follow up **MonkeyMensch** ’s correction, the word that’s pronounced “BA-cho” is “bacio,” meaning “kiss.” “Bacco” is the Italian name for Bacchus, which is not a word that comes up in conversation a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/6 "2003-11-08T19:15:01Z")
Apologies for incorrect spelling. I knew the plural was “bacci” so I made an ASS of U and ME. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/7 "2003-11-09T01:29:43Z")
Johnny L.A., the final “e” is supposed to be pronounced in standard Italian. But there are areas in which the “e” is dropped, in the style in which they speak in that area, but technically yes, the “e” is pronounced. If people aren’t pronouncing it when you hear it in CA I’d guess it’s more because they don’t know how to speak Italian than anything else. It’s like the 95% of people who pronounced “bruschetta” as “broo-shetta” - drives me insane. As far as “zabaglione” goes, people could also be confusing its pronunciation with “sabayon,” the French version of the word, which ends with a nasal “n.” People hear sabayon and then think zabaglione is the same word and pronounced the same. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/8 "2003-11-10T08:06:10Z")
As a rule of thumb you pronounce all the vowels in italian, even when there are three or four run together. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/9 "2003-11-10T09:22:15Z")
I spend most of my time surrounded by Italians, who (it seems to me) speak about food _non-stop_. 🙂 **Apollon** ’s pronunciation is spot-on. They all say ora-GAR-no, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/10 "2003-11-10T09:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMensch \* > \*\*As for the OP hearing trailing e’s sounded in French: Only for emphasis or when singing, AFAIK. \*\* There’s a few accents towards the south of the country that add a little emphasis to the final ‘e’ sound but as Monkey already stated, it’s pretty much kept to singing. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/11 "2003-11-10T14:07:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*They all say ora-GAR-no, too. \*\* I have never in my life heard any Italian pronounce “oregano” as “ora-GAR-no.” I’m guessing you mean oregano, right? ---
**Author:** ![Vision4BG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Vision4BG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vision4BG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/12 "2003-11-10T14:19:08Z")
WTF is with yanks and words like oregano and Carribean? The rest of the world can say 'em just fine. It’s like the way yanks say “internet” s’if it doesn’t have two Ts. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/13 "2003-11-10T14:29:44Z")
Believe it or not, people, there actually is no one way to pronounce Italian words. Don’t believe me? Get an Apulian, a Veronese, a Lombard, a Campagnian, and a Milanese all into the same room. Have them all give the definitive and one true correct way to pronounce a list of Italian food names. Sell tickets. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/14 "2003-11-10T14:31:42Z")
All Italians are taught standard Italian in school and they all know how to speak it. What they speak as dialect or regional variations is something else. But yes, they do know what standard Italian is. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/15 "2003-11-10T14:39:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by missbunny \* > I have never in my life heard any Italian pronounce “oregano” as “ora-GAR-no.” I’m guessing you mean oregano, right? I’m confident that’s exactly what he means. FWIW, the standard British pronunciation is also ore-GAH-no, but Italians of my acquaintance say o-REG-ano (with a long middle vowel), like the US standard. As **Dogface** , it depends what region they come from, and how much they’ve been influenced by the pronunciation of people around them. **Vision4BG** : since you’re new around here you might not realise how much hassle you’ll get from taking that tone. There’s nothing “wrong” with how the Yanks pronounce their words any more than there’s something “wrong” with how you or I might say them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/16 "2003-11-10T15:28:41Z")
I believe missbunny was confused by the “R” stuck in the middle of “ora-GAR-no.” Keep in mind, we Americans pronounce our Rs. To us “ora-GAR-no” and “ora-GAH-no” are quite different (from each other, as well as from how we generally pronounce it, o-REG-a-no." I don’t think there’s much agreement on the pronunciation of Caribbean in the United States. Either ca-RIBB-e-an or ca-ra-BEE-an. To American ears, the genuine Jamaican pronunciation goes either way. (Same thing with Hiroshima – hi-ro-SHEE-ma or hi-ROSH-a-ma. The genuiine Japanese pronunciation is _neither_ of those, so we just have to pick one.) ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/17 "2003-11-10T16:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vision4BG \* > \*\*WTF is with yanks and words like oregano and Carribean? The rest of the world can say 'em just fine. It’s like the way yanks say “internet” s’if it doesn’t have two Ts. \*\* Huh? “Innernet” has two t’s now? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/18 "2003-11-10T17:11:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > **I’m confident that’s exactly what he means. FWIW, the standard British pronunciation is also ore-GAH-no, but Italians of my acquaintance say o-REG-ano (with a long middle vowel), like the US standard. As Dogface, it depends what region they come from, and how much they’ve been influenced by the pronunciation of people around them.** There is indeed regional difference in pronunciation, but the differences usually don’t include differences in syllabic emphasis. I would bet my britches that oregano is pronounced “oh-REH-gah-no” throughout Italy, but how one pronounces “REH” might vary. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/19 "2003-11-10T17:12:11Z")
While we’re on the subject, what’s with us Brits and Irish incorrectly spelling parmigiano as “parmesan” (PAR-mi-zan) and the Yanks apparently spelling it right, but pronouncing it “parmi-ZHAAN”? ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083/20 "2003-11-10T17:14:13Z")
ascenray: that R did confuse me - but I meant that I’ve never heard an Italian pronounce oregano with the accent on the third syllable. Let alone with a second R in the middle of it. The only way I’ve ever heard it - I grew up speaking Italian with first-generation parents/aunts/uncles, have been to Italy many times, and minored in it in college - is the same way Americans say it: o-REG-a-no. Of course they roll the R. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-pronunciation/212083.md?page=2)