# Italian Rules for food and drink
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** food-cooking
**Created:** [June 20, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824 "2023-06-20T11:33:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/1 "2023-06-20T11:33:05Z")
I recently came across an [article](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65784505) about lab-grown meat, and a quote from an Italian lady about one-third through the article made me laugh. She was one of a few people to test lab-grown chicken in a dish with orecchiette, vegetables, and chicken at a Singapore restaurant. She had no issue with the meat grown in a test tube with god knows what other chemicals and genetic manipulation. Her only complaint? Italians never have chicken on pasta.
And it gets better. I shared the story with my boss who is from Florence and he confirmed that you cannot have chicken on pasta. So I ‘agreed’ with him (he is my boss after all), but told him what I enjoy is to have a side of spaghetti with chicken cacciatore. His jaw dropped and he then informed me in a slightly disappointed and dismissive way that only Americans eat pasta as a side dish. I can’t win 🤦♂️
In my experience, Italians are very passionate about their food and drink, but there are some things that are absolutely forbidden to do, or absolutely mandatory. Non-Italians can ignore these at their own peril!
What rules have you encountered? I thought it would be fun to have a list (and maybe a support group).
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/2 "2023-06-20T11:40:15Z")
I wish I knew what it was like now, but when my Grandfathers and their parents came over, every few hills of Italy had different foods and different dialects. If Italy has become a food monolith now, that is a little sad.
I think the beauty of places like NYC, North Jersey, Boston & Philly was all these cuisines came together and gave us so much of the food we loved today.
But yes, Italian-American Food and Italian food have absolutely drifted apart. Probably not as badly as Chinese-American Food and Chinese Food though.
Most Italian-American Food is based more off Southern Italian dishes of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Say 1890 to 1920. This would have varied greatly from Florence at the time.
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### Author:  [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/3 "2023-06-20T11:46:40Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> Most Italian-American Food is based more off Southern Italian dishes of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Say 1890 to 1920. This would have varied greatly from Florence at the time.
yes for sure. Another time I asked this same boss how he makes eggplant parmesan, and he gave me that same haughty look and told me that he wouldn’t know as “that dish is eaten in the South and is not part of our Tradition”.
My relatives came over from Basilicata in 1902.
But from my travels in Italy, I can assure you that there are still lots of wonderful regional differences.
Perhaps I should qualify my OP to say that I am not looking for Italy-wide rules, but just rules that _some_ Italians believe are sacrosanct.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/4 "2023-06-20T11:53:38Z")
She’s retired now, but there was a little Italian place run by an older Italian woman named Ida. We loved Ida, as did many others; but there were a huge number of people who absolutely hated her. She was a foul mouthed woman who ran her restaurant with an iron fist.
When your salads were brought to your table, a cruet of her house made Italian dressing came with it. If you asked for Ranch or any other dressing, the waitress would shush you, lest Ida hear. If Ida heard she’d come over and start yelling, “why the fuck you wanna ruin my salad? Don’t you know how to eat?”
She was like this with everything. Any requested modification of her food would lead to F bombs, which I found hilarious coming from her 80 year old mouth. She served huge helpings. Your waitress would brink styrofoam boxes for leftovers. I heard a woman ask Ida to put the remains of her meal into styrofoam and Ida yelled, “I should wipe your ass for you too?”
I miss Ida. Her food was so good and it was like dinner theater every time.
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### Author:  [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/5 "2023-06-20T12:00:10Z")
Ok, I’ll start!
Agree that pasta isn’t a side dish - it’s a starter (but can also be ordered as a main)
Also agree on the chicken and pasta thing
Apparently you should never use garlic and onion in the same dish, just one or the other.
They eat meatballs, but as an antipasto, not in pasta
Carbonara never has cream in it. Just eggs, parmesan, pecorino, black pepper and guanciale (pancetta at a push)
You don’t order a side salad with your pasta. Salad is a palette cleanser for the end of your main course
In a restaurant, you eat pizza with a knife and fork. You only eat it with your hands as a street food
Never drink cappuccino after breakfast, and NEVER at the end of a meal. That’s what espresso is for.
The only acceptable drinks with food are wine and water. Beer is ok in a pizzeria
Hey, don’t shoot the messenger!
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### Author:  [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/6 "2023-06-20T12:03:40Z")
Never combine cheese and seafood.
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### Author:  [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/7 "2023-06-20T12:15:40Z")
> [@Orville\_mogul](#):
>
> Her only complaint? Italians never have chicken on pasta.
Well, this is news to me. My Chicken Fra Diavolo is on regular rotation in the solost house and the whole family devours it when I make it.
But, like so many ‘ethnic’ dishes it did not originate in its supposed country of origin. Also it was originally made with shrimp.
> **[Who Knew? The Unusual Origins of Four Popular Italian Dishes – L'amore...](https://lamoreitalianrestaurant.com/food-history/who-knew-the-unusual-origins-of-four-popular-italian-dishes/)**
>
> A lot can be learned from a culture from the gastronomic history and traditions found in the region, and the world has hardly a better example of a culture whose culinary history has inspired more people to eat, cook, and travel than Italy. So we've...
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#):
>
> Never combine cheese and seafood.
This is another Italian ‘rule’ I regularly break. A nice white clam sauce _ **not** _ finished some good grated Parm or Romano? No thank you.
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### Author:  [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/8 "2023-06-20T12:21:22Z")
> [@solost](#):
>
> A nice white clam sauce _ **not** _ finished some good grated Parm or Romano? No thank you.
I’m not sure a ‘nice white clam sauce’ is particularly italian either! Olive oil, parsley, garlic, wine. E tutto!
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/9 "2023-06-20T12:27:00Z")
> [@SanVito](#):
>
> Carbonara never has cream in it.
The same goes for alfredo. No cream - just fettucine, Partigiano-Reggiano, and butter. Maybe sneak in a bit of black pepper or nutmeg if nobody’s looking.
When I make alfredo at home, that’s how I make it. I’m Calabrian on my paternal grandmother’s side, but my dad couldn’t cook worth a damn and I’m entirely a self-taught cook, so my Italian cooking is some sort of cultural mishmash that bears only the slightest resemblance to any particular tradition.
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### Author:  [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/10 "2023-06-20T12:51:48Z")
> [@SanVito](#):
>
> Carbonara never has cream in it. Just eggs, parmesan,
Actually, it can be argued that it only has egg **yolks** , parmesan…
And it has already been added you never use parmesan or any other cheese on pasta when the pasta sauce has fish or frutti di mare or shrimp or vongole or cozze or anything from the sea, but it bears repeating: not in Italian cooking. But there was one exception, only I just can’t remember which one. Now I am going to have it on the tip of my tongue for the rest of the day… Maybe @pulykamell knows and can clear my brainfog?
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### Author:  [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/11 "2023-06-20T12:54:34Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#):
>
> Actually, it can be argued that it only has egg **yolks** , parmesan…
Indeed, thanks for the correction.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/12 "2023-06-20T13:04:25Z")
There are no _rules_ governing acceptable food and drink and combinations thereof, only what you enjoy.
Lots and lots of experts though. Just ran across a review of a local pizza place in which the reviewer declared his supreme qualification to judge the food - he’d spent a lot of time in upstate New York, you see. 🤪
\*there was an amazing rule in our house when I was growing up - no beverages with your meal, only afterwards. That was the source of my first major pre-teen rebellion.
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### Author:  [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/13 "2023-06-20T13:05:49Z")
> [@SanVito](#):
>
> > [@solost](#):
> >
> > A nice white clam sauce _ **not** _ finished some good grated Parm or Romano? No thank you.
>
> I’m not sure a ‘nice white clam sauce’ is particularly italian either! Olive oil, parsley, garlic, wine. E tutto!
[Spaghetti alle vongole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_alle_vongole) does originate in Italy, though according to the wiki article…
> In America cheese is sometimes added to this dish, although Italians believe it overpowers the simple flavors of the clams and of good quality olive oil.
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### Author:  [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/14 "2023-06-20T13:13:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> There are no _rules_ governing acceptable food and drink and combinations thereof
Of course there are! You may enjoy whatever you like, no problem, but if it includes snails, don’t call it English, if it includes olive oil, don’t claim it’s Scandinavian, if it is based on seafood, don’t claim it is Austrian or Hungarian, and many more. There are rules about historical and geographical traditions, it is a good thing those rules exist and it is also a good thing that you may disregard those rules if you feel so inclined.
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### Author:  [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/15 "2023-06-20T13:16:09Z")
> [@solost](#):
>
> [Spaghetti alle vongole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_alle_vongole) does originate in Italy, though according to the wiki article…
Of course it does (more usually with linguine in my experience). Not sure I’d describe it as a ‘white clam sauce’ though - that gives me visions of cream or bechamel.
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### Author:  [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/16 "2023-06-20T13:18:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> There are no _rules_ governing acceptable food and drink and combinations thereof, only what you enjoy.
Culturally, of course there are. You can choose to do whatever you want, but we’re talking about Italy, where food rules are followed more stringently than the actual law. And fair play to them, their food is a never ending delight. It’s also hard to get a bad meal in even the smallest, scruffiest of restaurants, something which absolutely can’t be said of France, for example. So those rules are at least ensuring consistency of quality.
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### Author:  [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/17 "2023-06-20T13:27:07Z")
I’ve been told by several Italians that having a cappuccino after noon is. Just. Not. Done.
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### Author:  [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/18 "2023-06-20T13:35:46Z")
> [@SanVito](#):
>
> Of course it does (more usually with linguine in my experience). Not sure I’d describe it as a ‘white clam sauce’ though - that gives me visions of cream or bechamel.
**No cream** in my white clam sauce-- I adapted the recipe from an Italian-American I used to work with who liked his pasta.
- Clams
- Reserved clam liquor
- Splash of white wine
- Olive oil
- Lots of finely minced garlic
- Thyme (parsley might be more ‘canon’, but I like thyme)
- Broccoli cut in small florets (this was from the guy I got the recipe from; might seem wrong, but it’s really good in the recipe and adds vitamins)
- Thinly sliced red bell pepper (My occasional addition; optional, but adds color and more vitamins)
- Salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste
- Pasta of choice
- A bit of grated Parm of Romano
Saute the veg, garlic and seasonings in olive oil. Boil pasta to not quite al dente. Add clams, clam liquor and splash of white wine. Drink some white wine. Add in drained pasta and finish it in sauce. Serve with a little grated Parm or Romano on top and more white wine.
If that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right!
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### Author:  [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/19 "2023-06-20T13:40:17Z")
Hey, it’s your recipe and one you enjoy, nothing wrong with that. But not a classic ‘vongole’ unless you stop just before the thyme! (Sliced cherry tomatoes and a sprinkle of chilli flakes are acceptable)
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### Author:  [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/italian-rules-for-food-and-drink/985824/20 "2023-06-20T13:40:43Z")
In Italy, especially Sicily, egg noodles are typically served with ketchup.
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