# It'll get really ugly around here if Kerry wins. A theory. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813 "2004-10-12T12:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/41 "2004-10-12T20:12:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > George W. Bush: The President Qualye we never had. And Quayle too. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/42 "2004-10-12T20:22:30Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I’m talking about the reaction of the board (US) if Kerry gets elected, not the press or the general public. And that relates to what I said _how_??? > [@](#): > > You said: **If he makes mistakes, he’ll get criticized. What exactly is the problem with that? You want we should worship the president?** > I _expect_ him to get criticised. By YOU, no less. That is the subject of the thread in a nutshell. I’m hoping your principles rise above your partisonship. And, as I said, IF Kerry makes mistakes, he’ll get criticized. Could we maybe at least wait 'til he actually becomes president, and actually makes mistakes, before we begin doing so? What part of that didn’t you understand? > [@](#): > > OK, now try to relate to the topic and the ideas I’ve expressed (in several posts)rather than nitpick one line at a time, …please. That’s just incoherent babbling. > [@](#): > > **theR** , thankyou. That is my point exactly (similar to what I said in post 14). (See **blowero** , others have grasped) Actually, it was _my_ point, but I made it earlier. I have no idea what you’re talking about now. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/43 "2004-10-12T20:26:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Well, so far I’ve not seen one Kerry supporter say they won’t criticize him if they disagree with him. I don’t know why it needs to be stated. To me, this is as obvious as saying, “When you’re hungry, get something to eat.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/44 "2004-10-12T20:34:08Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > **Shodan** , **Lib** , can you say the same? Be honest: are there any circumstances where you can see yourself voting for a Democrat? Not necessarily this time around, since it’s obvious that Kerry hasn’t convinced you, but anytime, anywhere? I have voted for Democrats, although, like **Mr. Moto** , never for President. But if the Dems were running Joe Lieberman instead of Kerry, my decision would be more difficult than it is. Maybe Kerry will be a successful President. I doubt it, but I could be wrong. If he does get elected, I wish him all the luck in the world. But I suspect my definition of a “successful President” is very different from yours. If Kerry maintains a strong foreign policy, defends the country against its enemies, cuts taxes and reduces the scope of the federal government, reduces the cost of health care, and appoints judges who abide by a strict interpretation of the Constitution, good for him. If not, I will be here ripping him a new one as often as I can spare the time. He keeps saying he has a plan. We shall see if he does, and if it is worth anything. If so, cool. If not, well, let’s discuss it, shall we? > [@vibrotronica](#): > > I will say that Kerry’s got his work cut out for him. I think it’s very important for the good of the country to try and heal the great divide that separates us. Don’t think that’s gonna happen. IIRC, nobody since Bush Sr. in 1988 has gotten more than 50% of the vote. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/45 "2004-10-13T14:37:43Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I wasn’t around this particular board when Clinton was in office, but I assume the board seemed more conservative then. Nah. In fact, the current Bush threads were then Ken Starr threads. Anti-Clinton (both the president and her husband) threads drew immediate swarms of righteously indignant hysteria. I cannot recall any significant pittage of the Clintons from any of the boards vocal leftists. The groups were split pretty much just as they are now. ---
**Author:** ![TopherX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@TopherX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TopherX)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/46 "2004-10-13T16:59:12Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > It doesn’t even matter if President Kerry makes a mistake or not – _anything_ he does is going to get pounced on by the right-wing spin machine, with a fervor and zeal that will make the Clinton years seem like a love-fest by comparison. I agree that when Kerry gets elected, the media’s spin machine will shift in to high gear. To this day, I still cannot believe all the slanderous stories that cropped up during the Clinton administration. Whose murder did Clinton supposedly order? Any president should be held accountable for mistakes that they make while in office. Clinton could have handled the Monica thing better (or avoided it altogether). I too think that NAFTA, the family marriage act and the gay soldier silence rules were bad ideas. I still cannot get over all the supposed “gates” taking place during Clinton’s presidency. How many of those accusations turned out to be based on fact? Before I start sounding like a Clinton apologist, I would like to talk about criticism aimed towards our current president. For the first few years of this presidency, the media and many Americans kept their criticisms of Bush to a minimum. Yes, we struggled with the effects of 911. Many Americans rallied behind Bush’s decision to go to war with Iraq. Criticisms of Bush’s policies have increased over the past year, especially in the media. Is it because Iraq has become a mess? How does the election year play a role? What do I expect to happen after we elect our next president? If Bush is elected, the media will probably quite down their criticisms of the president. Bush will stop talking to the media like he did for the first three years of this past term. People who align themselves to the left will continue to become more active. If, and hopefully when, Kerry is elected, let’s look at his decisions and policies with a critical eye. This should be the public and media’s role with any president. I really hope that we won’t revisit the media circus that we watched during Clinton’s time. Then again, we still have the war to focus on. One thing I would like to see Kerry reform is the FCC rules that allows mega-corporations to own so many media outlets. I would also like to see news stations held accountable for their stories and sources. Either provide news or, if you’re going to editorialize, show both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/47 "2004-10-13T21:32:29Z")
One good thing if BUSH wins…it will be the best thing to happen to the left since the 60’s. But it’s still not worth the price. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/48 "2004-10-13T22:56:17Z")
If Bush wins, there may not be a ‘left’ left. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/49 "2004-10-13T23:20:23Z")
If Bush wins, there may not be a “USA” left. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/50 "2004-10-14T00:14:41Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > On a scale of ugliness, IMHO the ugliness now is around 10. How much uglier could it get? “This one goes to 11!” ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813/51 "2004-10-14T00:32:22Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > I know I won’t be freaking out if Kerry wins, though I certainly hope and work towards a Bush victory. Contrast that with the ‘end of the world is nigh!’ rhetoric that comes from the anti-Bush crowd _now_; When Bush wins, there’s gonna be anuerisms, much less heated rhetoric. > > Should Kerry win, he’ll get a free pass from most of the board Left. Anything potentially negative will be explained away as dealing with the ‘Bush legacy’. (Actually, they’ll probably say ‘Bushco’ or something similiar. Awful predictable, that lot.) Ahh, my favorite kind of post. One in which **Brutus** whines about partisanship. As anyone with even a shred of honesty realizes, it’s not a black and white issue. Some very small number of people are blindly partisan (in both directions). Some very small number of people are 100% fair and honest about everything. For instance, there’s Cecil, and there’s me 🙂 And there’s a bell curve in between those two extremes. What I really fear is that the following will occur: Right now, there are a large number of people on the left who truly thing that Bush is an absolutely awful president. Not just that they disagree with his positions, not just that they think he’s made mistakes, not just that they always think that about Republican presidents, but that they truly believe that he’s one of the worst presidents in American history. They may be right, they may be wrong. But they do have that opinion, they’ve come by it more or less intellectually honestly, and they are willing to express it. What I fear is that if Kerry is elected, and does a moderately decent job, there will be a feeling that, in order to balance the cosmic scales, in order for things to be fair, Kerry will _also_ have to be called “one of the worst presidents in American history”. I mean, if he’s elected, and if you honestly do believe that he is that terrible, by all means, express that. But I hope that the high level of vitriol, and extreme severity of accusations being thrown around right now, won’t mean that we won’t be able to calm back down to the level of politeness shown back in, say, the GHWBush administration. > [@Shodan](#): > > But I suspect my definition of a “successful President” is very different from yours. If Kerry maintains a strong foreign policy, defends the country against its enemies, cuts taxes and reduces the scope of the federal government, reduces the cost of health care, and appoints judges who abide by a strict interpretation of the Constitution, good for him. If not, I will be here ripping him a new one as often as I can spare the time. What if he maintains a strong foreign policy, defends the country against its enemies, makes fiscal choices that differ with yours but which do reduce the deficit, reduces the cost of health care and appoints judges whose ideology you disagree with? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-get-really-ugly-around-here-if-kerry-wins-a-theory/268813.md?page=2)