# It'll now cost a 65 year old couple $275,000 to cover their medical costs in retirement (in America) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944 "2017-09-09T21:07:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/21 "2017-09-11T18:47:31Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > We can’t have nice things like that in Dog’s Own Murka because a very vocal (and ill-educated) portion of the populace believes that UHC is SOCIALLLIZZZZZM!!! Their confused minds think that socialism = fascist totalitarian leftist rule, and that Obama will take their guns away when they’re sedated during their free UHC colonoscopy. Or something. It’s true, though. I had one of them free Canadian colonoscopies a while ago. When I woke up I not only didn’t have a single gun on me, but I had lost all memory of ever having owned any. This is the mind-control dystopia that is universal health care, which leads ultimately to Communism and the End of Days. ---
**Author:** ![Pippers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5a626/32.png) [@Pippers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pippers)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/22 "2017-09-11T19:07:19Z")
Besides being ridiculously expensive the health system is too convoluted for anyone to understand. I had a drs appt in July of 2016, insurance didn’t pay him until March of 2017. Several years ago he gave up his private practice and joined the hospitals clinic because he couldn’t afford the extra staff to wade thru the insurance mess. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/23 "2017-09-11T19:08:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In Ontario, where I live, the per person health care spending figure is actually less than the UK, about $3100 per person, but it’s not totally comprehensive; you need drug plans, dental plans, and the like, so I suspect the total figure is about the same. It’s not that far off U.S. insurance rates. Maybe insurance rates when subsidized by employers. But our COBRA (same deal as my big employer got without the subsidy) was $800 a month. Sure you can get cheaper insurance in the US (maybe) but that would go with gigantic deductibles. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/24 "2017-09-11T19:13:29Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Today? I’d never go on traditional Medicare myself (and I worked for them for 15 years). I’d join a Medicare Advantage plan. They work like PPOs or HMOs; one has copays, not “in-network, you pay 20% of the allowed amount after deductible”; and a person isn’t reamed if they need inpatient care. Most of these plans also cover medications; some cover vision. _By law, these plans must provide at least the same coverage as traditional FFS Medicare._ When I went on Medicare I found that only one Medicare Advantage plan covered the very good set of doctors I use. Plain old Medicare isn’t adequate, I agree, but I’m happy with the Medigap coverage I have. Option F isn’t that much more than the others, and covers nearly everything. Haven’t paid a penny since I went on. (Except for drugs, of course.) Course it helps to be able to afford this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/25 "2017-09-11T19:23:27Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > HaHaHa! I’m checking out when I can no longer do this. 14.5 billion years happened before me. 5 billion will happen before the sun goes red giant. What’s a billion years between friends? HaHaHa! The nihilist club meets weekly, over there by the lava pools. Don’t forget your swimsuit! ---
**Author:** ![fervour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@fervour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fervour)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/26 "2017-09-11T20:47:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > HaHaHa! The nihilist club meets weekly, over there by the lava pools. Don’t forget your swimsuit! Screw you! you don’t have a storm bearing down on you. Just go to hell. OK? Go to helll. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/27 "2017-09-11T21:12:28Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > Screw you! you don’t have a storm bearing down on you. Just go to hell. OK? Go to helll. I suggest then that you concentrate on helping yourself and others then, and refrain from posting nonsensical “everyone will die eventually, so who cares” nonsense. Best of luck to you in the storm. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/28 "2017-09-11T21:15:23Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > Screw you! you don’t have a storm bearing down on you. Just go to hell. OK? Go to helll. Dude what is your problem? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/29 "2017-09-11T21:36:54Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > HaHaHa! I’m checking out when I can no longer do this. 14.5 billion years happened before me. 5 billion will happen before the sun goes red giant. What’s a billion years between friends? People say they’ll end it when things start going downhill, but I wonder how they feel when that time is truly at hand. I would guess there are lot of people who decide to keep going. And sometimes you’re not all there to make that decision. You could get in an accident and be in a coma. Or get a stroke or dementia and you may rack up medical bills for decades without being able to do anything about it. Maybe there should be a registry for people to opt out of care they can’t pay for. Like a DNR directive but it would be “Do Not Treat”. So if you get cancer or whatever, the policy for you would be to pay up front. That might suck if you got sick, but you could opt-out of paying into any sort of government healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/30 "2017-09-11T21:37:53Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Dude what is your problem? A storm, at a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/31 "2017-09-11T21:47:51Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > A storm, at a guess. They call it stormy Monday, yes but Tuesday’s just as bad. Wednesday’s even worse; Thursday’s awful sad. ---
**Author:** ![fervour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@fervour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fervour)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/32 "2017-09-11T23:11:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I suggest then that you concentrate on helping yourself and others then, and refrain from posting nonsensical “everyone will die eventually, so who cares” nonsense. > > Best of luck to you in the storm. I’m OK, asshole. whirlwind, Why can’t you be a good person? Really, try to be better. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/33 "2017-09-11T23:32:31Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > I’m OK, asshole. whirlwind, Why can’t you be a good person? Really, try to be better. -Cheer up sunshine. This too will pass. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/34 "2017-09-12T01:07:41Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Sorry, I don’t follow one statement – What do you mean by “single payer”? We don’t have that. Medicare? Medicare is in desperate need of an overhaul; it was created and conceived when medical care was much less sophisticated, and thus costs were lower. A deductible and 20% of the allowed amount wasn’t bad back in the 1960s. Medications weren’t as expensive. > > Today? I’d never go on traditional Medicare myself (and I worked for them for 15 years). I’d join a Medicare Advantage plan. They work like PPOs or HMOs; one has copays, not “in-network, you pay 20% of the allowed amount after deductible”; and a person isn’t reamed if they need inpatient care. Most of these plans also cover medications; some cover vision. _By law, these plans must provide at least the same coverage as traditional FFS Medicare._ > > If my parents didn’t have the equivalent of a retiree AMEX black card (Medicare plus federal retiree Blue Cross benefits), I’d encourage them to get an Advantage plan. My point was that some people pushing health reform think that single payer or medicare for all will solve our problems. But it won’t. Our problem is that we spend 18% of GDP on health care while every other wealthy nation spends 8-12%. Even americans on medicare are struggling. Single payer and medicare are an improvement, but they won’t fix the issue. The only thing that’ll fix the issue is making our health care costs in line with other OECD nations. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/35 "2017-09-12T01:30:52Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I’m in the Good Old U. S. of A. > > I don’t _have to_ pay for anything. I wasn’t aware you could opt out of taxes in the US! How do you avoid paying your share of the public funding for health care? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/36 "2017-09-12T02:07:02Z")
This is nothing really new, just that it’s getting more and more extreme. The bulk of spending that people will ever do happens in the last 5-10 years of life. The real problem is that Americans have access to technology that can extend life, but they’re usually in bad, bad shape when they need that technology. The American lifestyle leads to diabetes, congestive heart failure, cancer, and other chronic illnesses. And the American healthcare economy is horribly inefficient and costly. If the average American realized how badly they were getting ripped off, they’d probably riot. So-called “socialized” care not only provides more access to care for more people; it’s a better product, and a cheaper one, too. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/37 "2017-09-12T02:20:36Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This is nothing really new, just that it’s getting more and more extreme. The bulk of spending that people will ever do happens in the last 5-10 years of life. The real problem is that Americans have access to technology that can extend life, but they’re usually in bad, bad shape when they need that technology. The American lifestyle leads to diabetes, congestive heart failure, cancer, and other chronic illnesses. And the American healthcare economy is horribly inefficient and costly. If the average American realized how badly they were getting ripped off, they’d probably riot. So-called “socialized” care not only provides more access to care for more people; it’s a better product, and a cheaper one, too. Americans lead a bad lifestyle, but so do people in other countries. Australia, New Zealand and the UK have rates of obesity and overweight about as bad as the US and they spend half what we do on health care. People in Japan and France are much more likely to be smokers than in the US but their health care still costs much less than ours. Lifestyle doesn’t explain why our system costs so much. Also neither does advanced technology because other wealthy nations have advanced technology too. Its really just, like you said, our system is run poorly. But at this point so many powerful interest groups are lined up at the 3.2 trillion dollar a year trough and they aren’t giving it up without a fight. If our health care were as efficient as Europe or Canada, we’d save over a trillion dollars a year. Business interests aren’t going to give up a trillion dollars a year in revenues without a fight. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/38 "2017-09-12T04:09:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Americans lead a bad lifestyle, but so do people in other countries. Australia, New Zealand and the UK have rates of obesity and overweight about as bad as the US and they spend half what we do on health care. > > People in Japan and France are much more likely to be smokers than in the US but their health care still costs much less than ours. > > Lifestyle doesn’t explain why our system costs so much. Also neither does advanced technology because other wealthy nations have advanced technology too. But what about diet? The American diet is pretty awful–soda, chips, candy, etc. Lots of foods high in calories but low in nutrition. If one person is getting X calories from things like soda/chips/candy and someone else is getting X calories from cheese/nuts/wine, I would assume the latter person would be healthier. Also, what about fitness? Many Americans have very low levels of activity. If two people weigh the same but one is sedentary and the other is active, the active person will be healthier. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/39 "2017-09-12T10:31:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Americans lead a bad lifestyle, but so do people in other countries. Australia, New Zealand and the UK have rates of obesity and overweight about as bad as the US and they spend half what we do on health care. > > People in Japan and France are much more likely to be smokers than in the US but their health care still costs much less than ours. > > Lifestyle doesn’t explain why our system costs so much. Also neither does advanced technology because other wealthy nations have advanced technology too. It does explain at least some of the costs, though. Yes, there is a steadily growing population of people who abuse their bodies in other countries, but people elsewhere, on average, are still fitter than we are. I believe this is less and less the case in Canada and Australia, which are rapidly ‘Americanizing’, if memory serves me correctly, but most other countries still eat less junk and exercise more. I lived in Japan for a few years and while there are still more smokers, they are much, much more active than Americans, and they eat a diet that is far more balanced than ours, both of which probably reduce the risks associated with cancer. When the average American hits retirement age, he is more likely to either have or be at serious risk of devastating chronic illness, which will wipe out his/her retirement. LBJ implemented medicare/medicaid in large part to fight elderly poverty and it has been the difference between being able to afford life beyond retirement and destitution. It was true then, and it’s even truer now. If affordable healthcare programs like medicare and medicaid are gutted, it will send millions from the middle class into poverty almost instantly. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that cutting these programs it could cause an instant recession in and of itself. When you take that much economic spending power out of the economy, there are consequences. I wouldn’t expect the average Ayn Rand reading moron to understand it though. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Its really just, like you said, our system is run poorly. But at this point so many powerful interest groups are lined up at the 3.2 trillion dollar a year trough and they aren’t giving it up without a fight. If our health care were as efficient as Europe or Canada, we’d save over a trillion dollars a year. Business interests aren’t going to give up a trillion dollars a year in revenues without a fight. No, they’re not, which is why it will probably take the collapse of the health system to make it happen, or a dumb legislative move by the GOP like killing medicaid or medicare’s functionality. Hurting Obamacare might be what Republicans think they want but it would probably cause a groundswell of anger and give more fuel to the movement for universal medicare. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944/40 "2017-09-12T12:17:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … Our problem is that we spend 18% of GDP on health care while every other wealthy nation spends 8-12%. Even americans on medicare are struggling. > > Single payer and medicare are an improvement, but they won’t fix the issue. The only thing that’ll fix the issue is making our health care costs in line with other OECD nations. Single payer – or some other type of regulated system that works like single payer – is the only way to fix that. In essence, it’s a necessary but not sufficient condition. You need to leverage the central management of single payer to regulate health care fees, and incentivize health care providers to accept lower fees by offering them prompt and hassle-free payment. A major reason that health care costs are so high is that half of it is spent trying to get paid and subsidizing those who can’t or won’t pay. How do you think hospitals cover the costs of having to provide emergency services under EMTALA, for instance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itll-now-cost-a-65-year-old-couple-275-000-to-cover-their-medical-costs-in-retirement-in-america/795944.md?page=3)