# ITR: Champion of Anti-science and Evasion (and au revoir everyone) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096 "2008-04-20T06:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/21 "2008-04-21T00:21:18Z")
[QUOTE=The Cocky Watchman] In the past 20 years, 16 of the Nobel prizes in chemistry have gone to Americans, either solely or shared; and 15 of the Nobel prizes in physics. [/QUOTE] I think it has a lot to do with wealth. Research requires a huge amount of money that many nations cannot afford because they have to use their’s on trying to survive and keep afloat. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/22 "2008-04-21T00:58:00Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] I agree, it’s outmoded and outlandish. Thankfully it’s honored almost entirely in the breach, not the observance - as have the silly old laws that are being repealed - and it hasn’t yet affected our science teaching. [/QUOTE] I saw an interesting item in the paper this weekend about international attitudes towards global warming. 47% of Americans surveyed thought that climate change was a serious threat. On the other hand, 45% of British surveyed thought that it was a serious threat. There’s a 2 percent backwardness gap! We need to catch up!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/23 "2008-04-21T03:12:01Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] Well, in fairness it hasn’t affected the science teaching of the US schools too. [/QUOTE] Oh yes it has. While ID/creationism is not taught, schools are so scared of upsetting parents that evolution gets ignored. My son’s middle school biology book - a weighty tome of several hundred pages - mentioned neither evolution nor Charles Darwin. When I called the county science curriculum person (can’t remember her exact title), I was told that I was the first parent ever to complain to her that evolution was not being taught enough. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/24 "2008-04-21T04:30:58Z")
[QUOTE=The Cocky Watchman] ‘fundie-corrupted science’ is a nice comedic phrase that I can only assume you posted for levity, but in 20 years the US may indeed rue its cheap valuation of science research in this decade. [/QUOTE] And how is it comedy ? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/25 "2008-04-21T05:00:59Z")
[QUOTE=The Cocky Watchman] Why do you hate America, son? In the past 20 years, 16 of the Nobel prizes in chemistry have gone to Americans, either solely or shared; and 15 of the Nobel prizes in physics. [/QUOTE] Before you take on this battle, be advised that if you actually begin to force him to debate his more illogical stances, he will stop posting in the thread because you are picking on him. Do a search, just in the pit, for threads devoted to **Der Trihs**. Really, there are better things to post about. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/26 "2008-04-21T05:24:40Z")
[QUOTE=SentientMeat] So thanks to everyone for these few weeks, I’d forgotten how enjoyable and addictive this place is. But I’d also forgotten just how disturbingly _backwards_ American attitudes can be sometimes, and how much more positive I am about humanity in general when I’m not immersed in them so deeply. [/QUOTE] But you will be back anyway, won’t you? BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/27 "2008-04-21T05:42:28Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] Before you take on this battle, be advised that if you actually begin to force him to debate his more illogical stances, he will stop posting in the thread because you are picking on him. [/QUOTE] That’s a lie. I simply don’t bother responding to Pit threads, because being the target of a bashfest by people who only want to throw insults and veiled threats of violence isn’t much fun, and accomplishes nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/28 "2008-04-21T06:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] That’s a lie. I simply don’t bother responding to Pit threads, because being the target of a bashfest by people who only want to throw insults and veiled threats of violence isn’t much fun, and accomplishes nothing. [/QUOTE] You’re using big words to say “picking on” but it means the same thing. And if someone threatens physical violence, you tell a Mod, and it stops. Sadly, the pit is where some of the best debates go, because you don’t have to dance around the niceties as one does in GD. Here you’re free to call a fuckwit a fuckwit. Your loss. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/29 "2008-04-21T09:12:31Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] And if someone threatens physical violence, you tell a Mod, and it stops. [/quote] Thus the “thinly veiled” part. [QUOTE=Tristan] Sadly, the pit is where some of the best debates go, because you don’t have to dance around the niceties as one does in GD. [/QUOTE] True. But not in bashing threads. Which, fair being fair, I try to avoid posting in ones aimed at other people. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/30 "2008-04-21T10:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] True. But not in bashing threads. Which, fair being fair, I try to avoid posting in ones aimed at other people. [/QUOTE] True enough, I suppose, but in particular in threads aimed at yourself, you would be surprised to see how much actual conversation gets stirred up. Your viewpoints do tend to bring out extremes and force them to talk, one way or the other. It’s a shame you miss that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/31 "2008-04-21T11:09:41Z")
**Sentient** , if you’re returning at least to read the responses, please consider that the opponent you’re dealing with is not necessarily the most important factor. It’s the lurkers who read but seldom post upon whom brilliant people like you have the most effect. Please keep in mind also that refusal to accept your premises does not necessarily constitute a disrespect for your worldview. You are the board’s greatest apologist for atheism and all forms of materialism. If it loses you, there are precious few others who understand their own worldview enough to express it intelligently or to argue it coherently. I will be willing to do almost anything if it will encourage you to stay. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/32 "2008-04-21T11:11:29Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] And if someone threatens physical violence, you tell a Mod, and it stops. [/QUOTE] No, it’s always couched as “dare you to say that in a bar…” kind of comments. Not moddable, which as it should be, but not exactly threat-free, I think. The implication being “If this was IRL and \*I \*heard you say [in-Iraq troops are murderers, religionists are deluded] _I’d_ kick your ass” - but of course, one can’t say that, so one improvises. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/33 "2008-04-21T14:17:15Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] And I can’t understand living in a country which has an official State religion where the head of State is “Supreme Governor” in said religion, and which has anti-blasphemy laws (or will for another few weeks anyhow: [http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2008/03/uk-house-of-lords-votes-to-abolish.php](http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2008/03/uk-house-of-lords-votes-to-abolish.php)). And I’m not going to get into a US v. UK fight either. It’s Sunday, don’t you have a CoE service you should be at? Kneel, kneel before your Pope Elizabeth! 😛 [/QUOTE] The difference is that in the UK we don’t take that shit seriously. No - I take that back - we do take it seriously which is why Blair had to hide his Catholicism under a rock until he skipped out. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/34 "2008-04-21T14:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] I agree that there’s a lot of anti-science crap in the US. Despite it, however, the US somehow manages to remain at the forefront of scientific research. How does that happen? Daniel [/QUOTE] College? ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/35 "2008-04-21T15:42:23Z")
That’s too bad, that thread was going places. Everyone stick around, soon I will be inviting persons with fundamentally illogical beliefs to debate me only on a logical basis. When that’s over I will climb off my cross and leave in a bigoted, drama-fueled huff. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/36 "2008-04-21T16:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] Here I was in complete agreement with you, and thinking “damn, another good one gone”, until you posted this tripe: I’m not going to get into it with you today (plus you’ve left, unless you’re like the typical SDMBer who “leaves” multiple times by returning), but you’re being both bigoted and needlessly insulting. Not a high note to leave the Board on after you made such a good impression to some (like myself) while you were here. [/QUOTE] Oh, come on. There were serious candidates for the Presidency (or at least the Republican nomination therefor) who raised their hand when the debate moderator asked “do any of you not believe in evolution”. That’s backward. No other Western country is still struggling with the issue of whether or not evolution should be taught in schools. It isn’t, and shouldn’t be, any more controversial than calculus - and yet still the “debate” continues. That’s backward. Whether or not the United Kingdom has an established religion is immaterial. Would you judge one of the Southern states because it still has a statute on the books ostensible prohibiting miscegenation? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/37 "2008-04-21T17:30:17Z")
_hump_ _hump_ _whine_ _hump_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/38 "2008-04-21T18:04:45Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] _hump_ _hump_ _whine_ _hump_ [/QUOTE] Dead horses don’t whine… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/39 "2008-04-21T18:53:50Z")
[QUOTE=amarone] Oh yes it has. While ID/creationism is not taught, schools are so scared of upsetting parents that evolution gets ignored. My son’s middle school biology book - a weighty tome of several hundred pages - mentioned neither evolution nor Charles Darwin. When I called the county science curriculum person (can’t remember her exact title), I was told that I was the first parent ever to complain to her that evolution was not being taught enough. [/QUOTE] There’s a lot more to science than evolution. It probably represents less than 5% of a science curriculum, and most people forget it all anyway. Teaching creationism or ID in school is stupid, and it’s unconstitutional. But the idea that the US is somehow falling behind in science because of the vocal minority trying to get creationism taught in school doesn’t make much sense. Too bad SentienMeat decided to quit, but this board still has plenty of smart, engaging posters. And the swipe at Americans in the OP tainted his departure, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/40 "2008-04-21T19:17:33Z")
I think it was plainly obvious how thoroughly you destroyed all of **ITR** ’s arguments, I don’t see why it’s necessary to leave over his failure to get a clue. I know people like him are frustrating, but I don’t see the SDMB being any worse in the obstinately anti-scientific IDiot department than anywhere else online. And if it is, I must be reading the wrong science blogs. For what it’s worth, [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=203743) was the main reason I joined the board, though I couldn’t afford to until a year later, and is still the only one I have ever bookmarked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096.md?page=3)