# ITR: Champion of Anti-science and Evasion (and au revoir everyone) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096 "2008-04-20T06:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/101 "2008-04-23T03:23:41Z")
Arguing about what percentage of science would be altered by the religious right misses the point. None should be allowed. There are religion classes .That is where it must stay. But caving into political power of the right stains science. Allow it and see where it stops. How would the righties like it if scientists had input in the bible. It would wind up a pamphlet. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/102 "2008-04-23T05:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Your arguments are not worthy of a response, you keep the debate at the kindergarten level. **I will never discuss the value of religious experience next to the existance of pop culture icons that were invented after the advent of television. I’m sorry, I’m just not going to entertain such debates.** [/QUOTE] Emphasis Mine. So if he hadn’t mentioned Santa (who I should mention wasn’t invented by Coca Cola) you would argue it? Okay how about vampires. Or unicorns. Or dragons. Or Arjuna, Krisha or Baal? C’mon pony up. Argue for the existence of your invisible bff in the light of all that other shit you don’t believe in. Religious beliefs are as stupid as believing in unicorns. They are both silly and have zero evidence for them. Please argue against that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/103 "2008-04-23T15:52:57Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] Emphasis Mine. So if he hadn’t mentioned Santa (who I should mention wasn’t invented by Coca Cola) you would argue it? Okay how about vampires. Or unicorns. Or dragons. Or Arjuna, Krisha or Baal? [/quote] Arjuna is a mythical character in the Bhagavad Gita, he was a human, not a God. Krsna is a Vaishnavite name for God. Baal is a I believe Canaanite name for God. > [@](#): > > C’mon pony up. Argue for the existence of your invisible bff in the light of all that other shit you don’t believe in. You want me to argue within the terms of your conflation. That makes you an idiot who just wants to ridicule me, not an honest interlocutor. You don’t take me seriously, why should I take you seriously? > [@](#): > > Religious beliefs are as stupid as believing in unicorns. They are both silly and have zero evidence for them. Please argue against that. This is where you are irrational. You make a blanket statement. You don’t even know what I believe and you tell me that it’s as stupid as believing in unicorns. You’ve made up your mind. Where’s the debate? You just want to be a bully, and that’s obvious. I’ve got your number, and it’s not a very big one. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/104 "2008-04-23T16:04:35Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And what do you think Jesus is ? A marketing tool. Not that Santa Claus was actually invented by Coca Cola. [/quote] Fair enough, but the origin of Santa Claus is easily determined. > **[Did Coca-Cola Invent the Modern Image of Santa Claus?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-claus-that-refreshes/)** > > The image of Santa Claus as a jolly large man in a red-and-white suit was the standard long before Coca-Cola co-opted it for their advertising. > [@](#): > > That is what it’s about. If you can’t provide evidence that God exists ( much less proof ), then he’s just one of thousands or millions of mutually contradictory myths. I wouldn’t respect someone who insisted in the reality of Athena or Marduk, either. You simply don’t WANT anyone to ask for evidence, because you have none; you just want everyone to take your particular bit of mythology seriously without proof. In other words, you want special treatment. Evidence for what? What exactly is it you want evidence for? What image of God is it that you think I believe in? You’re offering canned arguments, and you haven’t even slowed down to determine what it is you’re even debunking. > [@](#): > > In other words, you know you are wrong, know you can’t win, and are pulling your “You are unworthy to debate me !” defense again. > [@](#): > > And you fail to give a reason why God deserves more respect than “pop culture” icons, or why their age matters. Why should I give a reason? It doesn’t matter what you think. I know you think you are highly important in the scheme of things, but I do not. I don’t get into the ‘gotcha’ argument about proof for God. I’m happy with you being an atheist. My arguments have always been about the sociological impact of religion. That’s why I don’t argue with you, you try to make it into, “Prove God exists.”, and ignore what I am actually saying. Different religions have different cultural properties and fill different roles in people’s traditional lives. > [@](#): > > Why bother ? It’s a religious document, and therefore worthless. That’s 5 hours I wouldn’t get back. And I don’t think you’d change your opinion of me anyway, no matter what you say; you are a liar. Give me facts, not myths; I don’t care in the slightest what it says unless it has facts to back it up. See there you go. You want us to argue with you, but you ignore the subjects offered to you. You don’t have any intention of arguing honestly. It is actually YOU who is dishonest. You don’t know a fucking thing about religion, as you haven’t looked at any of the materials, you just issue the blanket statement that ‘it’s all stupid’. Even though you don’t know what it is that is stupid, you just know that it’s stupid. You don’t know what anyone believes, you just know it’s wrong. > [@](#): > > And why that and not any other random collection of myths ? Well, because it reconciles conflicting mythologies within its framework. That’s one of the things that makes it interesting. You could read it and think of it as fantasy fiction if you like. I asked for a literary analysis, not that you buy into it. Arguing with you is like arguing with a petulant child. “I don’t know anything about it other than that it’s stupid!”, and you think that your argument is equal to other arguments. It’s not, it’s juvenile. You’re willing to spend whole months of your life spouting off about how stupid you are, but you won’t even spend 5 hours building up your knowledge of the topic you spend untold hours on. I don’t care that whether you are right or wrong. That’s beside the point to me, it’s that you can’t offer any insight into the subject that makes you a totally worthless opponent. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/105 "2008-04-23T16:08:11Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Oh, and further harming **mswas’s** argument (not that I don’t understand frustration with **Der Trihs** ) is that [Coca Cola most certainly did NOT invent Santa Claus](http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp). [/QUOTE] I don’t see how that harms my argument. So I bought into an urban legend. So what? That’s just gotcha bullshit. “Here’s a piece of irrelevant evidence, now debate it.”, “No I won’t debate it it’s irrelevant because of X. I refuse to take it seriously.”, “Oooh pwned!” I’m sorry, but me not knowing the correct debunking of a stupid argument doesn’t really award point to either side. That’s the problem with a lot of the atheists on this board. They don’t care about crafting real arguments, they just want to be able to say, oooh pwned. Then when I do it, they get all pissy and start crying because I don’t take them seriously. Either we are debating seriously, or we are discussing cartoon characters, which is it? Are we having a debate or are we flaming on the ‘pwned’ level? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/106 "2008-04-23T16:37:26Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Arjuna is a mythical character in the Bhagavad Gita, he was a human, not a God. Krsna is a Vaishnavite name for God. Baal is a I believe Canaanite name for God. You want me to argue within the terms of your conflation. That makes you an idiot who just wants to ridicule me, not an honest interlocutor. You don’t take me seriously, why should I take you seriously? [/quote] I don’t take you seriously because you’ve a proven track record as a fuckwit. Aside from the fact that I don’t take you seriously, you have never faced an argument head on. You whine about how I and others aren’t honest interlocutors. If you had an argument worth anything you should be able to refute what I’m saying. > [@](#): > > This is where you are irrational. You make a blanket statement. You don’t even know what I believe and you tell me that it’s as stupid as believing in unicorns. You’ve made up your mind. Where’s the debate? You just want to be a bully, and that’s obvious. No, I just want you to support your constant bullshit claims. You can’t even do that, which makes you no better than lekatt. > [@](#): > > I’ve got your number, and it’s not a very big one. I know you are but what am I? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/107 "2008-04-23T16:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] I don’t take you seriously because you’ve a proven track record as a fuckwit. Aside from the fact that I don’t take you seriously, you have never faced an argument head on. You whine about how I and others aren’t honest interlocutors. If you had an argument worth anything you should be able to refute what I’m saying. [/quote] I face plenty of arguments head on. I talk to Sentient Meat, Voyager, Pochacco, Revenant Threshold and deal with their arguments head on. > [@](#): > > No, I just want you to support your constant bullshit claims. You can’t even do that, which makes you no better than lekatt. Oh please, this is about as dishonest as it gets. Generally I don’t follow tangents I don’t feel like following. I have offered many times for people to start a thread on the tangent if they like, they usually decline, preferring to ‘pwn’ me, by being incensed that I won’t debate them. > [@](#): > > I know you are but what am I? :rolleyes: Precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/108 "2008-04-23T18:03:29Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Fair enough, but the origin of Santa Claus is easily determined. > **[Did Coca-Cola Invent the Modern Image of Santa Claus?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-claus-that-refreshes/)** > > The image of Santa Claus as a jolly large man in a red-and-white suit was the standard long before Coca-Cola co-opted it for their advertising. [/QUOTE] Indeed. Status: False As everyone knows, Santa is none other than Wodan. Sure his charactaristics have changed over time, from Wodan to Sinterklaas to Santa Claus. It’s not as if the image of YHW hasn’t changed over time, from an egotistical genocidal maniac to a strict but fair God who loves us to God=Love ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096/109 "2008-04-23T20:09:11Z")
even though you folded like a Welsh scrum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/itr-champion-of-anti-science-and-evasion-and-au-revoir-everyone/446096.md?page=5)