# It's 1971. Re-write the Godfather saga **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675 "2012-03-03T21:51:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/1 "2012-03-03T21:51:59Z")
All of a sudden you find yourself beamed into 1971, a month or three before principal shooting on THE GODFATHER (part I) and you find that Coppola has had you, as a random person from forty years into the future, transported to help him polish up his script and make artistic choices and avoid making stupid judgments. The cast for GF I is all signed up, but you can have any cast or crew members replaced if your special knowledge guides you in that direction. Your will will be done, on earth as it is in heaven, but you can also advise on specific plot elements or lines in the script to be followed in any of the films to follow. Personally, I would advise him to anticipate future sequels and make very generous offers to commit the cast to portraying their characters in sequels: Brando, Castellano (in GF, II) and Duvall (in GF, III) were influential in determining how the story lines would deal with their unavailability, to the deteriment of the sequels. As entertaining as Michael V. Gazzo was as Frankie Pentangeli, I’d much rather have seen Castellano playing Clemenza as a rat testifying against Michael before the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/2 "2012-03-03T21:54:12Z")
Truth be told, I’m not sure how any hindsight-driven modifications could do anything but fuck things up, for the first two movies at least. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/3 "2012-03-03T22:01:21Z")
I wish we had more insight into Michael’s choices, I wanted a more sense of the tragedy in that it it was choices anyone could make. In the movie it seems more like Michael has been steeped in the culture since birth and is only kidding himself about leaving it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/4 "2012-03-04T00:02:33Z")
Write Godfather III at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/5 "2012-03-04T00:17:06Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/6 "2012-03-04T01:15:43Z")
Godfather I - I wouldn’t mind including the back stories of Al Neri & Luca Brasi from the book. Godfather II - The whole hit on Michael thing never made any sense. Who opened the curtains, who killed the shooters (certainly not Fredo!), what was Fredo’s part in the plot? The kamikaze hit on Roth takes me out of the movie. I don’t picture Mafia hitmen going on suicide missions. Godfather III - I’ve never understood the hate for Sofia Coppola. She was the least problem in this mess. It might have been better if it had been made before Al Pacino lost his ability to be subtle, but I doubt it. Keep the papal intrigue, lose the opera & helicopter hit, leave Connie at home cooking the pasta. Or, do a complete rewrite to revolve around the RFK/Hoffa conflict. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/7 "2012-03-04T01:39:07Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The cast for GF I is all signed up, but you can have any cast or crew members replaced if your special knowledge guides you in that direction. De Niro as Sonny? ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/8 "2012-03-04T02:13:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > De Niro as Sonny? An Italian as Sonny. Maybe Frank Langella. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/9 "2012-03-04T02:14:10Z")
I’d have offered John Cazale a million dollar bonus if he’d quit smoking. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/10 "2012-03-04T14:00:48Z")
OK to expand the OP, the GF franchise went off the rails when they lost Castellano and, to a lesser degree, Brando (whose character dying was the plot climax of the original, but who could have filmed “flashback” scenes, and even scenes where he was made up to look like Deniro at his oldest point, while Deniro could have been made up to look like the youthful Brando at his youngest, which would have been cool, and both actors would have liked doing that, too). But Castellano betraying everything the family stood for, loyalty, omerta, etc. would have been a gigantic kick in the ass that had less kick with Frankie Pentangeli (who’s he?) doing the turncoat turn. Because Gazzo did a good job, I think we forget how much more powerful it would have been with Castellano doing the testifying. But Tom Hagen was the real antagonist for Michael, the cynical good angel trying to legitimize the Corleone enterprises while Michael was tugged in the other direction in GF III–George Hamilton as a Hagen-manque? Please. Zero gravitas. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/11 "2012-03-04T14:09:25Z")
PRR I agree with everything you said. Clemenza needed to be in GF2. It was all about seeing the young Clemenza meet Vito and the family start and flash forward to seeing Clemenza now. Hell it would have been a better movie if they got a new actor to play Clemenza. And I also always get taken out of the movie during the kamikaze hit. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/12 "2012-03-05T19:43:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > PRR I agree with everything you said. Clemenza needed to be in GF2. It was all about seeing the young Clemenza meet Vito and the family start and flash forward to seeing Clemenza now. Hell it would have been a better movie if they got a new actor to play Clemenza. +1 I remember watching GF2 for the first time and thinking during the hearings “Who the hell is this guy?” His brother comes, he recants and offs himself. Who cares? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/13 "2012-03-06T03:18:06Z")
I haven’t seen III yet. I haven’t read the books. I have trouble with the transition of Michael. He starts as the guy who wants out from the family, and who describes them (in the initial wedding scene, to Kay) as if they are from a criminal culture he feels alien from. He starts out as the guy who at considerable familial cost volunteers to join the army, despite coming from a family culture that (as Sonny puts it) thinks anyone who volunteers to risk their life for strangers is a sap. In other words, he seems to have real principles. I understand how he then has little choice but to step up when Vito and Sonny are killed, but what doesn’t seem to fit with the early indications of his character is why he doesn’t merely step into the role in a minimal way and then wind it back. Instead he turns it up to eleven. I guess the corrupting nature of his situation is the point of the series, but (to get back to the OP) it would help make it more believable for me if GF1 included maybe at least one element (_prior_ to the deaths of Vito and Sonny) that painted Michael as a little more ambiguous in character. Give him a hint of dark side. It would make the rest more believable for me. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/14 "2012-03-06T03:28:18Z")
… and I guess you might say that the hint of his dark side is his volunteering to make the hit on Sollozzo and McCluskey, but really that is a hot headed thing he agrees to do in direct revenge of his father. It isn’t something that shows that what I interpreted as his basic distaste for the family business was corruptible. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/15 "2012-03-07T18:11:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Write Godfather III at the same time. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/16 "2012-03-07T18:32:42Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I haven’t seen III yet. I haven’t read the books. I have trouble with the transition of Michael. He starts as the guy who wants out from the family, and who describes them (in the initial wedding scene, to Kay) as if they are from a criminal culture he feels alien from. He starts out as the guy who at considerable familial cost volunteers to join the army, despite coming from a family culture that (as Sonny puts it) thinks anyone who volunteers to risk their life for strangers is a sap. In other words, he seems to have real principles. > > I understand how he then has little choice but to step up when Vito and Sonny are killed, but what doesn’t seem to fit with the early indications of his character is why he doesn’t merely step into the role in a minimal way and then wind it back. Instead he turns it up to eleven.. You articulated my only complaint with GF1 better than I could, it reminded me of Revenge Of The Sith where Anakin’s turn to Vader made no sense, one small step to baby killing(literally!). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/17 "2012-03-07T19:29:18Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > The kamikaze hit on Roth takes me out of the movie. I don’t picture Mafia hitmen going on suicide missions. I doubt he had any expectation of undertaking a suicide mission, he just got unlucky. Michael’s bodyguard was a professional assassin imported from Sicily specifically to give Michael a weapon he could trust close to absolutely after the failed assassination attempt on his own life ( i.e. he couldn’t be 100% sure of his own guys ). He was doing just fine at eliminating Roth and Ola, but the Cuban military rushed security to the room before he could finish smothering Roth and he got caught. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/18 "2012-03-07T19:33:14Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I haven’t seen III yet. I haven’t read the books. I have trouble with the transition of Michael. He starts as the guy who wants out from the family, and who describes them (in the initial wedding scene, to Kay) as if they are from a criminal culture he feels alien from. He starts out as the guy who at considerable familial cost volunteers to join the army, despite coming from a family culture that (as Sonny puts it) thinks anyone who volunteers to risk their life for strangers is a sap. In other words, he seems to have real principles. > > I understand how he then has little choice but to step up when Vito and Sonny are killed, but what doesn’t seem to fit with the early indications of his character is why he doesn’t merely step into the role in a minimal way and then wind it back. Instead he turns it up to eleven. > > I guess the corrupting nature of his situation is the point of the series, but (to get back to the OP) it would help make it more believable for me if GF1 included maybe at least one element (_prior_ to the deaths of Vito and Sonny) that painted Michael as a little more ambiguous in character. Give him a hint of dark side. It would make the rest more believable for me. Marines, not army. But take into account that he was awarded the Navy Cross. He may start off with principals but he is already a killer. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/19 "2012-03-07T19:59:58Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > The kamikaze hit on Roth takes me out of the movie. I don’t picture Mafia hitmen going on suicide missions. If you’re talking about the first guy (who wore black while in Cuba), I don’t think it was a kamikaze - he just got caught. If you’re talking about the second guy (who met Roth at the airport), I seem to recall _something_ where it was discussed that the man who was to shoot Roth had to have nothing to lose - i.e., he was already terminal from cancer, or he was due to be rubbed out but this was his chance to make amends. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/20 "2012-03-07T20:33:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If you’re talking about the first guy (who wore black while in Cuba), I don’t think it was a kamikaze - he just got caught. > > If you’re talking about the second guy (who met Roth at the airport), I seem to recall _something_ where it was discussed that the man who was to shoot Roth had to have nothing to lose - i.e., he was already terminal from cancer, or he was due to be rubbed out but this was his chance to make amends. I seem to recall someone saying that was in the book. Certainly not explained in the movie. The movie should stand on its own. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675.md?page=2)