# It's 1971. Re-write the Godfather saga **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675 "2012-03-03T21:51:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/21 "2012-03-07T20:36:20Z")
Well, regarding GF2, the stuff with Roth isn’t in the book - only the “early Vito” story was in the novel. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/22 "2012-03-07T23:27:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Marines, not army. But take into account that he was awarded the Navy Cross. He may start off with principals but he is already a killer. This doesn’t do it for me. It’s not specified what he did to earn his Navy Cross, but whatever it was it would have been based around heroic acts saving his buddies or bravery taking objectives that his commanders wished to take, in a just war. All actions that most good citizens would applaud. It seems to me to be a long leap to go from that, to ruthless, cold blooded killings to not merely defend but to massively enlarge a criminal empire. Sure, the Navy Cross shows bravery and determination but it doesn’t show bad character. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/23 "2012-03-07T23:46:03Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > … and I guess you might say that the hint of his dark side is his volunteering to make the hit on Sollozzo and McCluskey, but really that is a hot headed thing he agrees to do in direct revenge of his father. It isn’t something that shows that what I interpreted as his basic distaste for the family business was corruptible. When Michael suggests doing the McCluskey/Solozzo hit, Sonny says something to that effect, or more to the point: that Michael wants to do this because McCluskey slapped him around a bit. Michael, however, says it is not personal at all, strictly business, and convinces them by coming up with the plan to let the media portray McCluskey as a dirty cop. The point is, the way this hit is done is meant to show Michael not as a hothead but as a cool calculating businessman. I agree, though, that the transition from the Michael we see at the wedding to this cool calculating Michael is difficult to follow in the movie and could have been done more credibly. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/24 "2012-03-08T00:14:23Z")
I’m probably not putting it clearly. It’s not that I have trouble with “cool calculating”. Michael is never portrayed as anything but highly competent at what he sets out to do, and cool and calculating in how he does it. It’s _what he wants to do_ not _how he does it_ that jars a bit for me. He goes from someone who has distaste for his families illegal and violent ways, and shows real civic spirit in joining the marines, and then next thing you know he is _expanding_ the family’s illegal and violent ways and corrupting civil society. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/25 "2012-03-08T00:27:15Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > When Michael suggests doing the McCluskey/Solozzo hit, Sonny says something to that effect, or more to the point: that Michael wants to do this because McCluskey slapped him around a bit. Michael, however, says it is not personal at all, strictly business, and convinces them by coming up with the plan to let the media portray McCluskey as a dirty cop. The point is, the way this hit is done is meant to show Michael not as a hothead but as a cool calculating businessman. I love the very slow zoom in this scene - showing Sonny, Tom and Michael at first, then closing in gradually to show only Michael in the shot at the end of his speech, signifying him taking power. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/26 "2012-03-08T00:34:56Z")
I have trouble seeing how the slow zoom is supposed to signify Michael taking power: he is doing a fall guy’s work in making the hit then having to leave the country, sidelining him and leaving Sonny to play the Big Shot role in having an underling do the work while he keeps his hands clean. I would have seen the slow zoom as signifying the enormity of what Michael is doing: a major act of criminality that will doom his formerly clean record and embed him into the family business. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/27 "2012-03-08T00:35:37Z")
In Godfather part 1, get someone who can act without mumbling to play Vito. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/28 "2012-03-08T00:54:26Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I have trouble seeing how the slow zoom is supposed to signify Michael taking power: he is doing a fall guy’s work in making the hit then having to leave the country, sidelining him and leaving Sonny to play the Big Shot role in having an underling do the work while he keeps his hands clean. I would have seen the slow zoom as signifying the enormity of what Michael is doing: a major act of criminality that will doom his formerly clean record and embed him into the family business. OK, yours is a better explanation of what I’m trying to convey - it also shows how he’s clearly the most intelligent and cool-headed, foreshadowing the more major family role he’ll play. IMO of course. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/29 "2012-03-08T01:29:23Z")
I was referring to the hit on Roth at the airport where he was met by the FBI. The hitman is Rocco Lampone, who earned his bones by killing Pauli Gatto. Lampone was later made a capo regime & was involved in the hit on Philip Tattaglia. In Godfather II, Lampone appears to be head of security at Mike’s Nevada compound. Now, I can see Lampone being in Mike’s doghouse for the security breach that almost resulted in Mike’s assassination; but, is this really the guy you send to commit murder in full view of the FBI? What if he is captured? He has had enough direct dealings with Mike to cut any deal he desires with the feds. It just doesn’t work IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Osiris\_the\_1st](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/30 "2012-03-08T17:59:21Z")
As to Michael’s motivation, I think it had to do mostly with guilt, as well as love for/loyalty to his father/family. Look at how he finds out that Vito has been shot. He and Kay are in New York apparently having a holiday. He shows no sign that he intends to visit or meet up with anyone from his family, distancing himself from them in order to distance himself from The Family. He only finds out what happened to Vito because it’s on the front page of the newspaper. Now infer how he felt. Did he think, “If I was there, maybe this wouldn’t have happened. If I had become part of The Family could I have somehow helped to avoid this?” Now think about his anger when, with Police assistance another attempt is made on Vito at the hospital. Just because he seem cold and calculating on the outside. It doesn’t mean that he isn’t raging on the inside. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675/31 "2012-03-08T21:10:57Z")
> [@Osiris\_the\_1st](#): > > As to Michael’s motivation, I think it had to do mostly with guilt, as well as love for/loyalty to his father/family. > > Look at how he finds out that Vito has been shot. He and Kay are in New York apparently having a holiday. He shows no sign that he intends to visit or meet up with anyone from his family, distancing himself from them in order to distance himself from The Family. He only finds out what happened to Vito because it’s on the front page of the newspaper. Now infer how he felt. Did he think, “If I was there, maybe this wouldn’t have happened. If I had become part of The Family could I have somehow helped to avoid this?” > > Now think about his anger when, with Police assistance another attempt is made on Vito at the hospital. > > Just because he seem cold and calculating on the outside. It doesn’t mean that he isn’t raging on the inside. The scene at the hospital is the pivotal scene. When they are outside and he is telling the baker what to do, the baker can’t light a cigarette but Michael’s hands are steady. In that moment he realizes how suited he is for the family business. And one of the last times Pacino has been subtle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-1971-re-write-the-godfather-saga/614675.md?page=1)