# It's 2015. Can we stop with the sexual harassment at work already? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 28, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125 "2015-08-28T00:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/41 "2015-08-28T18:57:28Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Always. ALWAYS say something directly first. > > If you go to a manager and say Bob is hitting on you and you’d like it to stop, the first question is going to be “Have you told HIM to stop?” > > I’m pretty hard core on this and I’ve seen in in both directions, but if you never made any effort to tell the guy to knock it off over the course of several advances, then the fault is yours for not directly telling that person to stop. Why not both? Say something to the offender, and tell the owner what’s going on so he can’t say he wasn’t informed either. It would be difficult to confront the offender out of the blue now that the offense is a day old. But if it happens again, that’s a perfect opportunity to speak up (“you’re making me uncomfortable; knock it off”), tell the owner (“X said Y to me, and he said Z to me yesterday. I told him to knock it off, but you may want to remind him about your workplace harassment policy”), and write down, at home, the whole chain of events starting with the first offensive utterance. OP said his daughter’s coworker confirmed a similar experience; wouldn’t hurt to document her experience as well. If it happens again - or if she gets fired for seemingly spurious/nonsense reasons - that’s a fine time to consult a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/42 "2015-08-28T19:16:09Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I think for your daughter, and really anyone in such a situation, the first response should be a firm “You are making me very uncomfortable. Please stop talking like that.” Meh… saying “please” isn’t going to help, and the guy clearly doesn’t care if she’s uncomfortable. A better formulation would be “That’s completely rude and inappropriate and I don’t want to hear it again.” I’d like to think these jerks would learn some manners if women were assertive enough to shut them down and embarrass them on the spot. But of course that’s what HR is for, and it’s hard to come up with an ideal response in the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/43 "2015-08-28T19:21:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > ‘No Reasonable Person’ ? Get real. If this ever hit a court and she was asked “did you ever tell him ‘no’?”, she’s pretty much fucked if she says she did not. [QUOTE=EEOC guidance on sexual harassment; i.e. how it actually works] Generally, victims are well-advised to assert their right to a workplace free from sexual harassment. This may stop the harassment before it becomes more serious. A contemporaneous complaint or protest may also provide persuasive evidence that the sexual harassment in fact occurred as alleged (see infra Section B). Thus, in investigating sexual harassment charges, it is important to develop detailed evidence of the circumstances and nature of any such complaints or protests, **whether to the alleged harasser, higher management, co-workers or others**. While a complaint or protest is helpful to charging party’s case, it is not a necessary element of the claim. Indeed, the Commission recognizes that victims may fear repercussions from complaining about the harassment and that such fear may explain a delay in opposing the conduct. If the victim failed to complain or delayed in complaining, the investigation must ascertain why. The relevance of whether the victim has complained varies depending upon “the nature of the sexual advances and the context in which the alleged incidents occurred.” [/QUOTE] But I mean, you made up a good point, too. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/44 "2015-08-28T19:22:33Z")
Ivygirl called to give me more info. She walked into her boss’s office, asked if she could speak to her privately, and told her what “Nick” had said. Her boss dropped her head and shook it, which tells me this is not the first time Nick has been an ass. She thanked my daughter for telling her, said they take this thing very seriously, and brought in the GM and Nick’s boss. They both told Ivygirl this type of behavior is not tolerated and they will handle it immediately. She told me the GM is a great guy, and she sat at his table today during lunch and had a nice chat. Crisis resolved. With any luck, this will be Nick’s third offense and he will be escorted out of the building. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/45 "2015-08-28T19:24:28Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > In any event, Ivygirl talked to her boss, who took her seriously. They thanked her for telling them, told her it would be handled internally, and to let them know if it happened again. Glad to hear that discussion went well. Hopefully it won’t happen again, but if it does, it sounds like they’re willing to back her up. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/46 "2015-08-28T19:25:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’d like to think these jerks would learn some manners if women were assertive enough to shut them down and embarrass them on the spot. But of course that’s what HR is for, and it’s hard to come up with an ideal response in the moment. HR is NOT your friend. It’s there to protect the company, not you. Now yes, if a scum manager becomes a clear liability, then HR will do something, but the best way to silence a single complaint is to simply get rid of the “squeaky wheel”- but of course say it’s for something else. Sales Manager or brand new clerk? Who does HR value more? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/47 "2015-08-28T19:29:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Crisis resolved. With any luck, this will be Nick’s third offense and he will be escorted out of the building. Crisis reported, not resolved. Let’s see what actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/48 "2015-08-28T20:00:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > HR is NOT your friend. > > It’s there to protect the company, not you. > > Now yes, if a scum manager becomes a clear liability, then HR will do something, but the best way to silence a single complaint is to simply get rid of the “squeaky wheel”- but of course say it’s for something else. > > Sales Manager or brand new clerk? Who does HR value more? That would be the worst HR team ever. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington\_Northern\_%26\_Santa\_Fe\_Railway\_Co.\_v.\_White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington_Northern_%26_Santa_Fe_Railway_Co._v._White) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/49 "2015-08-28T20:14:17Z")
Have her tell him she has really virulent gonorrhea ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/50 "2015-08-28T20:16:19Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Have her tell him she has really virulent gonorrhea I know you think you’re being funny, but no. There’s no reason to respond to crassness with anything other than complete professionalism. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/51 "2015-08-28T20:28:58Z")
As uncomfortable as it may be for her, she needs to tell the harasser directly that she feels uncomfortable with his way of addressing her and ask him poitely to stop. If she doesn’t take this step first before contacting the boss, the harasser’s first response to the employer will be “but she gave me no indication she wasn’t enjoying it”. And sadly, legally, he’ll be correct. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/52 "2015-08-28T20:31:26Z")
The fact that her boss is a woman makes me more optimistic. I concede that I probably do have an archaic view of car dealerships. In my area, they’re all still run by “good old boys”, and I would expect the management to be mostly if not entirely male. But it’s probably not like that everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/53 "2015-08-28T20:34:30Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > As uncomfortable as it may be for her, she needs to tell the harasser directly that she feels uncomfortable with his way of addressing her and ask him poitely to stop. If she doesn’t take this step first before contacting the boss, the harasser’s first response to the employer will be “but she gave me no indication she wasn’t enjoying it”. And sadly, legally, he’ll be correct. Again, incorrect. The harassee is under no obligation to try to stop the harassment before going to the boss. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/54 "2015-08-28T20:37:39Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Again, incorrect. The harassee is under no obligation to try to stop the harassment before going to the boss. Well, sorta. It’s\* expected\* in many cases, but not in\* Quid pro quo\*, which this would seem to fall under. If it’s just a co-worker, and just a comment like this, yes, you will be asked “Why didn’t you just ask them to stop?” ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/55 "2015-08-28T20:37:50Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > As uncomfortable as it may be for her, she needs to tell the harasser directly that she feels uncomfortable with his way of addressing her and ask him poitely to stop. If she doesn’t take this step first before contacting the boss, the harasser’s first response to the employer will be “but she gave me no indication she wasn’t enjoying it”. And sadly, legally, he’ll be correct. So if Joe walks up and stuffs his hand down her blouse and if she doesn’t (is afraid to) object), Joe can claim she enjoyed it? If that’s the case, this is a sick world. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/56 "2015-08-28T20:38:44Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > If she doesn’t take this step first before contacting the boss, the harasser’s first response to the employer will be “but she gave me no indication she wasn’t enjoying it”. And sadly, legally, he’ll be correct. Please stop saying this. It is, legally, total bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/57 "2015-08-28T20:40:20Z")
Look at the local privacy laws and if it’s legal, get it on tape. Of she has a smart phone, odds are it’ll work as a voice recorder. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/58 "2015-08-28T20:42:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > ITT: a bunch of stupid guys and stupid advice. I don’t know where this came from or if you posted in the wrong thread or if it’s just a reference I’m not getting or what… but, barring that, it’s basically both threadshitting and calling every poster who has posted before you “stupid”, which you’ve been here very well long enough to know is against the rules outside of the Pit…so I’m giving you a warning for it. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/59 "2015-08-28T20:59:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Please stop saying this. It is, legally, total bullshit. I Heart You. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125/60 "2015-08-28T21:06:06Z")
As I understand it from the multiple modules we have to take every year on harassment training (not because the workplace is rampant with it, by any means) it is the employer’s responsibility to provide a harassment-free environment. It is not the employee’s responsibility or duty to police the behavior of others. That’s why they give the boss the corner office and the big check. You’re going to expect some fresh-faced college girl to stand up to the manager (possibly her boss) who’s been there for ten years? She should feel free to bring her concerns to anyone, another supervisor, HR, etc, without feeling she should have to confront her harasser first in an attempt to gain “credibility.”\* \*Yes, I know there is female on male harassment, male on male harassment, female on female harassment, and all flavors in between. Just trying to keep things simple. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-2015-can-we-stop-with-the-sexual-harassment-at-work-already/729125.md?page=4)