# "It's a common courtesy when a military official from another government salutes, that you return" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121 "2018-06-14T22:54:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/1 "2018-06-14T22:54:19Z")
I had to cut the quote short; it wouldn’t fit in the allotted character limit. [Cite](https://apnews.com/34a97780be414a5798bd662722fceb54/White-House:-Trump-salute-to-NK-general-'a-common-courtesy'). > [@Sarah Huckabee Sanders](#): > > It’s a common courtesy when a military official from another government salutes, that you return that. Is it? According to whom? Since when? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/2 "2018-06-14T22:58:15Z")
It’s contrary to American military training to salute while in civilian clothes (though many presidents have ignored this). In uniform, I’d never salute a foreign officer unless they were working with us in a joint exercise or an exchange program. But no one should kid themselves that Trump has the slightest idea about real standards of behavior in the military. He saluted the NK’n general because he’s impulsive and acts without thinking. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/3 "2018-06-14T22:58:55Z")
I don’t know if there’s any rule, but if you are saluted and you don’t return it, isn’t that a pretty clear insult? ETA: Apparently not, iiandyiiii explained it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/4 "2018-06-14T23:10:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s contrary to American military training to salute while in civilian clothes (though many presidents have ignored this). In uniform, I’d never salute a foreign officer unless they were working with us in a joint exercise or an exchange program. But no one should kid themselves that Trump has the slightest idea about real standards of behavior in the military. He saluted the NK’n general because he’s impulsive and acts without thinking. I ran across [this](http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/stupidcomics309.html) just a couple of days ago. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/5 "2018-06-14T23:14:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s contrary to American military training to salute while in civilian clothes (though many presidents have ignored this). I think it’s safe to say that rules for the president are pretty much up to the president, but it’s common for presidents to return salutes. Obviously they have to be in civilian clothes to do this. That said, while there are military rules for _when_ to salute, there’s absolutely no guidance on when _not_ to salute. To whit, you might get laughed at or worse for saluting another enlisted member, but there’s nothing that says you can’t. In uniform or otherwise. You can salute a trash can if you want. It’s not a sacred hand gesture. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In uniform, I’d never salute a foreign officer unless they were working with us in a joint exercise or an exchange program. IIRC you were Navy so maybe your rules were different, but per AFI 34-1201, there’s no caveat about the foreign officer being in a joint exercise or exchange program. If you’re in uniform and you see an officer, you salute. However… > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But no one should kid themselves that Trump has the slightest idea about real standards of behavior in the military. He saluted the NK’n general because he’s impulsive and acts without thinking. There are _only_ two reasons this whole kerfluffle is in the news. One, because the right lost their shit constantly over a bunch of piddly things Obama did, and the left now wants to point out conservative hypocrisy. And two, because the AFI I referenced above specifies that foreign offers requiring a salute must be from _friendly foreign nations_. So either Trump is making a broad announcement that NK is now a friendly nation, or he just reflexively saluted, but really, who cares? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/6 "2018-06-14T23:43:20Z")
The best thing about the picture is Kim’s face. He’s got this “Holy shit. Trump saluted my general” look going on. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/7 "2018-06-14T23:49:22Z")
Trump knows they have nukes. Maybe Trump is saying “Ave, morituri te salutant” but we can’t hear it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/8 "2018-06-14T23:58:17Z")
Not really. This is the beginning, middle and end of it: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … He saluted the NK’n general because he’s impulsive and acts without thinking. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/9 "2018-06-15T00:02:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s contrary to American military training to salute while in civilian clothes (though many presidents have ignored this). I think this is one of those interservice differences that gets assumed to be the same. On the Army side the regulation says that a salute is not required if one of the parties is in civilian clothes. It is not in anyway disallowed or contrary to any training I received. I certainly initiated and returned many salutes when one or both of the parties was in civilian clothes. Presidents, of course, trump DOD or service level regulations. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/10 "2018-06-15T00:07:26Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > I think this is one of those interservice differences that gets assumed to be the same. On the Army side the regulation says that a salute is not required if one of the parties is in civilian clothes. It is not in anyway disallowed or contrary to any training I received. I certainly initiated and returned many salutes when one or both of the parties was in civilian clothes. Presidents, of course, trump DOD or service level regulations. Perhaps. In the Navy, I was trained to always salute superior officers when I was in uniform – if they were in civilian clothes (which means I’d have to know personally they’re rank by their face), they would never salute back. But if I was in civilian clothes, I never saluted. If someone saluted me while I was in civvies, I’d just nod to acknowledge, but not salute back. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/11 "2018-06-15T00:10:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In uniform, I’d never salute a foreign officer unless they were working with us in a joint exercise or an exchange program. As I read AR 600-25(2-1)(c): > [@](#): > > Foreign military officials listed in table 2–1, holding positions equivalent to those of DOD and military department officials, both military and civilian, will be rendered the honors to which the equivalent U.S. official is entitled, regardless of actual military rank. All other foreign military persons will receive the honors due their actual rank or its U.S. Army equivalent. Is that not the rule? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/12 "2018-06-15T00:12:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is that not the rule? That wasn’t andy’s rule but it was mine. He was Navy and the AR stands for Army Regulation. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/13 "2018-06-15T00:15:52Z")
Link to an article for those of us who missed what happened? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/14 "2018-06-15T00:22:33Z")
I don’t actually recall the exact Navy regulation for whom to salute, but from my memory we salute foreign military officers only when we are in uniform and we’re allies/working together. But my memory shouldn’t be considered authoritative on this – I’m certain that Navy regs say we don’t salute when not in uniform (or when we’re “uncovered”, meaning not wearing our uniform cap, which includes when we’re inside), but I’m not as certain about the rules for foreign officers. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/15 "2018-06-15T00:25:49Z")
In the USCG (and probably the USN because they copy everything the CG does) one only salutes if one is wearing a cover (hat). And one NEVER wears a cover indoors UNLESS they are under arms. Translation: If I’m inside unarmed (even just a white guard belt with a baton) I don’t offer salutes or return them. If I’m outside in uniform I offer and return salutes. I don’t salute in civvies. To be honest, there’s an unwritten rule concerning distance from the recipient. Where I was mostly stationed, in the training center there were a LOT more Enlisted than Officers and Warrants. Once after returning from lunch, my Warrant came to our office where the coffee mess was and griped about having to return all those salutes wore out his arm. So I’d often see Officers and Warrants walk on the OTHER side of the street so they wouldn’t be saluted and have to return one. Then there was the rush for indoors when the bugle played the warning about raising or lowering the flag. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/16 "2018-06-15T00:26:45Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > In the USCG (and probably the USN because they copy everything the CG does) I think you got that backwards, shipmate. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/17 "2018-06-15T00:41:08Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Link to an article for those of us who missed what happened? > **[What was Trump thinking when he saluted a North Korean general? | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/donald-trump-salute-north-korea/index.html)** > > During his brief trip to Singapore for a historic summit with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, President Donald Trump was introduced to North Korean Gen. No Kwang Chol. Trump extended his hand. Chol saluted. Trump saluted back. Then the two men... ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/18 "2018-06-15T00:52:44Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Translation: If I’m inside unarmed (even just a white guard belt with a baton) I don’t offer salutes or return them. If I’m outside in uniform I offer and return salutes. I don’t salute in civvies. Nitpick – you do salute indoors when you’re reporting (although I can count on 1 finger the number of times I reported anywhere after my initial training), and I don’t think it’s written in the AF regs but it’s also customary to salute when receiving an award or honor from a higher ranking officer (i.e., take-shake-salute, which I’m sure you’ve done before). But more importantly… > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m certain that Navy regs say we don’t salute when not in uniform I’d bet that, like the AF reg I mentioned above, the Navy regs don’t say anything about when not to salute. It’s _customary_ not to salute outside of the prescribed requirements, but there’s no repercussions for going above and beyond, or saluting whomever/whatever/whenever you’d like. For the sake of the story, there’s absolutely no foul in Trump returning the General’s salute, other than whatever political hay anyone wants to make of it. Personally, it doesn’t even rank on the radar of things Trump’s done this week that we should be discussing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/19 "2018-06-15T00:57:54Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I’d bet that, like the AF reg I mentioned above, the Navy regs don’t say anything about when not to salute. It’s _customary_ not to salute outside of the prescribed requirements, but there’s no repercussions for going above and beyond, or saluting whomever/whatever/whenever you’d like. > > For the sake of the story, there’s absolutely no foul in Trump returning the General’s salute, other than whatever political hay anyone wants to make of it. Personally, it doesn’t even rank on the radar of things Trump’s done this week that we should be discussing. At some point I’ll stop being lazy and look up the regs, but we were specifically taught in training to _not_ salute while uncovered. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/20 "2018-06-15T00:58:06Z")
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