# "It's a common courtesy when a military official from another government salutes, that you return" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121 "2018-06-14T22:54:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/21 "2018-06-15T00:59:45Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > …Personally, it doesn’t even rank on the radar of things Trump’s done this week that we should be discussing. OK, what would you prefer to discuss in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/22 "2018-06-15T01:06:01Z")
Navy policy specifically says not to salute when uncovered, which would include indoors. Marine Corps policy follows. [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.courses.netc.navy.mil/courses/14325/14325\_ch9.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi32p3KvNTbAhUMXK0KHROiCdMQFghlMAw&usg=AOvVaw0FPvWZBn33hdFQS2Qu\_H\_M](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.courses.netc.navy.mil/courses/14325/14325_ch9.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi32p3KvNTbAhUMXK0KHROiCdMQFghlMAw&usg=AOvVaw0FPvWZBn33hdFQS2Qu_H_M) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/23 "2018-06-15T01:14:54Z")
^^ Well I’ll be damned, mea culpa to iiandyiii and others. Reading some guidance for joint environments, that’s actually one of the differences highlighted between the Navy and the Army/Air Force. Even when reporting, no saluting uncovered. Sorry guys. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/24 "2018-06-15T01:46:19Z")
I always return salutes from Venezuelan troops marching through our neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/25 "2018-06-15T04:36:57Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I always return salutes from Venezuelan troops marching through our neighborhood. I pay careful attention to armed men of all sorts marching through mine. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/26 "2018-06-15T06:24:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As I read AR 600-25(2-1)(c): That’s the Army rule, which has exactly zero bearing on the President’s actions. I can’t find the rule on saluting enemy generals, but I’m fairly certain it’s “No”. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/27 "2018-06-15T07:11:47Z")
I’ve never been in the military, but as far as I can tell, there are longstanding precedents for saluting not just foreign officers, but (in at least some circumstances) even _enemy_ officers. From a [1991 U.S. Army pamphlet on Prisoners of War](https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/prisoners-of-war-1991.pdf): > [@](#): > > Enlisted prisoners must salute officers of the detaining power and show them the same respect required by their own forces. Officer prisoners must salute higher-ranking officers of the detaining power and the camp commander, regardless of his rank. And U.S. Presidents have been _returning_ salutes since at least Reagan’s day, regardless of whether or not that is strictly proper in terms of military protocol. Of all the shit Trump has done, including numerous things relating specifically to this summit…I don’t really see that this was even objectionable. The bit with the one guy extending a hand for a handshake while the other guy is saluting, and the first guy returning the salute while the other guy extends _his_ hand for a handshake, before they finally shake hands, all sounds mildly comical, but could probably have happened to any president, even one who wasn’t utterly incompetent and mentally and morally unfit for office. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/28 "2018-06-15T08:18:18Z")
I cannot believe that I am saying this, but Trump was in the right here. He received a salute as President of the US. He returned it. It was a diplomatic summit. What should he have done? Stuck out a middle finger? If you watched CNN it would seem Trump had handed over the launch codes. ---
**Author:** ![Casparlatete](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/casparlatete/32/3377_2.png) [@Casparlatete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casparlatete)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/29 "2018-06-15T09:00:45Z")
When you are President of the United States of America, you can do what you damn well like - and in case you hadn’t noticed, he does. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/30 "2018-06-15T11:33:04Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Of all the shit Trump has done, including numerous things relating specifically to this summit…I don’t really see that this was even objectionable. The bit with the one guy extending a hand for a handshake while the other guy is saluting, and the first guy returning the salute while the other guy extends _his_ hand for a handshake, before they finally shake hands, all sounds mildly comical, but could probably have happened to any president, even one who wasn’t utterly incompetent and mentally and morally unfit for office. It’s at worst a minor faux pas. But he never should have been in the presence of NK’n generals for a photo op in the first place. That’s just handing Kim yet another propaganda victory for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/31 "2018-06-15T11:38:26Z")
Anyone notice if he snapped his heels together? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/32 "2018-06-15T11:45:30Z")
For those of us who don’t lose our shit when a Democratic president performs a gesture of respect to a foreign leader, this is at best an embarrassing faux pas that handed North Korea a small propaganda coup but otherwise is fairly trivial. For those who declared that bowing to a Saudi prince or saluting a Marine with a coffee cup in your hand were signs of the End Times, saluting a member of the military of a hostile nation (and remember that NK has repeatedly threatened to nuke the US, not to mention its various issues with our ally to its south) ought to blow their tiny minds but of course will be rationalized away. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/33 "2018-06-15T11:50:46Z")
A North Korean general saluting a US President is a “propaganda coup”? It was the officers who initiated the salute not Trump? Did military officers who were in Trump’s entourage who no doubt met NKor military officers refuse to salute? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/34 "2018-06-15T11:53:35Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > A North Korean general saluting a US President is a “propaganda coup”? It was the officers who initiated the salute not Trump? > Did military officers who were in Trump’s entourage who no doubt met NKor military officers refuse to salute? No, a US President saluting a North Korean general is a “propaganda coup”, as evidenced by the North Koreans immediately using the video of it as propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/35 "2018-06-15T12:01:36Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > To be honest, there’s an unwritten rule concerning distance from the recipient. Where I was mostly stationed, in the training center there were a LOT more Enlisted than Officers and Warrants. Once after returning from lunch, my Warrant came to our office where the coffee mess was and griped about having to return all those salutes wore out his arm. So I’d often see Officers and Warrants walk on the OTHER side of the street so they wouldn’t be saluted and have to return one. Heh, reminds me of a time when a bunch of us took a bus to some event. An officer was on the sidewalk, I assume waiting to speak to the driver, and kept returning the salutes thrown at him by each person getting off the bus. After four or five, he just held his arm in place until the passengers were gone. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/36 "2018-06-15T12:06:16Z")
I think it should be pointed out that, while the President is the CIC of the armed forces, he is not a member of or officer commissioned in them. And while he can do whatever he pleases I think it’s not only unnecessary, but inappropriate to return a salute from anybody; doubly so from a member of a semi-hostile army. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/37 "2018-06-15T12:27:24Z")
Depends. Did the flag have a gold fringe? Was it a full moon? Had the crow a twig in its beak? I’ve been hearing Trump is a secret Buddhist. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/38 "2018-06-15T12:37:01Z")
From Google: “It doesn’t matter if the president doesn’t salute “properly”. He doesn’t have to salute at all. He’s not in the military. Presidents traditionally did not return salutes. Reagan began the tradition of the president returning the salute. As a military officer in WWII he might have some claim to saluting but Eisenhower, a retired general, did not salute.” Though I despise Trump in general, I have no problem with him returning the salute out of courtesy and as an overture of friendship. If we’re trying to turn an enemy into a friend, showing some respect can’t be a bad thing. In situations like that, however, it is important not to cross the line that separates “respect” from “deference”. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/39 "2018-06-15T12:43:07Z")
I’ve seen other senior civilians get saluted by the military. I few times I’ve seen the Secretary of Defense get saluted by a military Officer (who I think got carried away after meet the Secretary for the first time) and the response was a head nod and a quiet “thank you.” That is what I think should have been done here. Beyond that, I’m disappointed that this wasn’t one the myriad of things discussed prior to the meeting so he would have known how to handle it. This shouldn’t have been a surprise, and they should have known the right way (whatever that was deemed to be) to handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/40 "2018-06-15T12:54:24Z")
It probably was. But do you expect Trump to remember a myriad of things? Or even pay attention in the first place? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121.md?page=3)