# "It's a common courtesy when a military official from another government salutes, that you return" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121 "2018-06-14T22:54:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/41 "2018-06-15T12:55:50Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Though I despise Trump in general, I have no problem with him returning the salute out of courtesy and as an overture of friendship. If we’re trying to turn an enemy into a friend, showing some respect can’t be a bad thing. In situations like that, however, it is important not to cross the line that separates “respect” from “deference”. It doesn’t really matter what Trump does - I gather the issue is what Fox News does. They were vocal when Obama either didn’t return a salute or did so in an arguably inappropriate way i.e. while holding a coffee cup, but were silent when Bush43 or Trump acted comparably. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/42 "2018-06-15T12:59:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It probably was. But do you expect Trump to remember a myriad of things? Or even pay attention in the first place? Unfortunately, that would be ‘no’ on both counts **Chronos**. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/43 "2018-06-15T13:00:56Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I’ve seen other senior civilians get saluted by the military. I few times I’ve seen the Secretary of Defense get saluted by a military Officer (who I think got carried away after meet the Secretary for the first time) and the response was a head nod and a quiet “thank you.” That is what I think should have been done here. > > Beyond that, I’m disappointed that this wasn’t one the myriad of things discussed prior to the meeting so he would have known how to handle it. This shouldn’t have been a surprise, and **they should have known the right way (whatever that was deemed to be) to handle it.** [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/trump-north-korea-salute/index.html) > [@](#): > > A US official told CNN that Trump was briefed on protocol, **which is to not salute military officers from other countries.** The White House, however, is not viewing Trump saluting a North Korean general as a mistake. It is being seen as all part of the broader goal that day, which was to show respect to Kim and his entourage, according to the official. Of course, he didn’t listen. Why do they even bother anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/44 "2018-06-15T14:44:20Z")
More and more the White House is looking like The Twilight Zone episode “It’s A Good Life”, because no matter what The Cheeto-In-Chief says and/or does “It’s a _good_ thing”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/45 "2018-06-15T14:56:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > More and more the White House is looking like The Twilight Zone episode “It’s A Good Life”, because no matter what The Cheeto-In-Chief says and/or does “It’s a _good_ thing”. Does this mean that eventually Jeff Sessions’ head will be bobbing up and down on a jack-in-the-box spring Out In The Field? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/46 "2018-06-15T14:56:55Z")
When I was in the Canadian Armed Forces I was taught that in uniform, you always saluted officers, no matter what country they were from, and a Canadian officer would expect a salute from any enlisted member or lesser officer from any other country and was expected to return it. This was a written rule, no ambiguity about it. “Allied” was not a relevant concept. It is conceivable you could salute an officer of an enemy - if for instance you were speaking to an enemy officer while negotiating under flag of truce, it would be polite and appropriate to salute them. This was kind of important in Kingston, where I was based, because there’s a staff college there and visiting officers are common. You can get a little jumpy trying to figure out whether the Israeli guy walking towards you is an officer or not and if so what kind of officer he is… oh crap he’s walking with a dude from, is that Ghana? What the hell rank is he? Do two stripes mean captain there, too? Salutes to civilians are a rare honor, but often appropriate. Saluting a head of state, of course. The Prime Minister and Minister of Defence are to be saluted. A soldier could salute an individual civilian of their acquaintance, but this was considered an act of unusual respect and wasn’t to be overused. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/47 "2018-06-15T15:03:50Z")
In Commonwealth Armies IIRC an officer is supposed to\* acknowledge\* the salute even when returning it is not appropriate, for example when sitting down or in civvies. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/48 "2018-06-15T15:10:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > When I was in the Canadian Armed Forces I was taught that in uniform, you always saluted officers, no matter what country they were from, and a Canadian officer would expect a salute from any enlisted member or lesser officer from any other country. “Allied” was not a relevant concept. It is conceivable you could salute an officer of an enemy - if for instance you were speaking to an enemy officer while negotiating under flag of truce, it would be polite and appropriate to salute them. > > This was kind of important in Kingston, where I was based, because there’s a staff college there and visiting officers are common. You can get a little jumpy trying to figure out whether the Israeli guy walking towards you is an officer or not and if so what kind of officer he is… oh crap he’s walking with a dude from, is that Ghana? What the hell rank is he? Do two stripes mean captain there, too? > > Salutes to civilians are a rare honor, but often appropriate. Saluting a head of state, of course. > > One did not salute out of uniform, in uniform while not wearing a headdress, or, in most circumstances, during field operations. > > The rules are pretty much the same everywhere. American officer return salute of[surrendering Germans in WW2](http://www.indianamilitary.org/83RD/Surrender/GenElsterSurrenders-1.jpg) British officer [returns Japanese salute](https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ww2-japanese-surrender-aug-1945-two-commanders-salute-each-other-at-20093256.html). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/49 "2018-06-15T15:24:58Z")
To sum up: there is nothing requiring Trump to return a salute. Neither is there anything indicating that he should not. This is a non-story. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/50 "2018-06-15T15:28:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To sum up: there is nothing requiring Trump to return a salute. Neither is there anything indicating that he should not. This is a non-story. Except for the tiny fact that the image of him saluting North Korean officials is being played nonstop there to bolster the propaganda that we capitulated. That was the primary reason he was told NOT to do it, I’m betting. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/51 "2018-06-15T15:30:53Z")
Who gives a shit? It’s North Korean state media. If he hadn’t returned the salute, they’d be perfectly happy to fake a video showing that he did. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/52 "2018-06-15T15:33:52Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’ve been hearing Trump is a secret Buddhist. Worst. Buddhist. _Ever._ > [@Donald Trump (according to Doonesbury)](#): > > He’s the head of a country – and I mean he’s the strong head. He speaks and people sit up in attention. I want my people to do the same. (Trump on North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un) Now, see, _that_ is the sort of “faux pas” we should all be talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/53 "2018-06-15T15:34:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who gives a shit? It’s North Korean state media. If he hadn’t returned the salute, they’d be perfectly happy to fake a video showing that he did. If they had, we could counter with the real photo…but they didn’t, and we can’t. It was a stupid thing to do that he was warned about beforehand. It wasn’t the first time, it certainly won’t be the last, and people not giving a shit is the reason it continues. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/54 "2018-06-15T15:51:06Z")
So apparently it is not a serious issue. Fine, it doesn’t ruffle my feathers any. But- what would the Republican reaction have been if Obama had saluted North Korean officers? I’ll tell you- they would have been protests outside the White House, calls for impeachment, accusations of disrespecting the troops and the Korean war dead, and so on. It would have been proof positive of Obama’s treason. I’d like to end the tradition, as started by Reagan, of returning salutes. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/55 "2018-06-15T15:59:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So apparently it is not a serious issue. Fine, it doesn’t ruffle my feathers any. But- what would the Republican reaction have been if Obama had saluted North Korean officers? I’ll tell you- they would have been protests outside the White House, calls for impeachment, accusations of disrespecting the troops and the Korean war dead, and so on. It would have been proof positive of Obama’s treason. > > I’d like to end the tradition, as started by Reagan, of returning salutes. Would there be though? When the right wing “media” went ape-shit over Obama doing something or other, it happened in their own media silo. The only people who noticed or cared were the Hannity, Limbaugh, Murdoch listeners. Did the fact that Obama bowed or saluted or whatever he did change a single vote? Pointing out republican hypocrisy on the subject is worth doing of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/56 "2018-06-15T16:03:59Z")
Are you kidding? Republicans wasted no opportunity to disrespect Obama, including calling him a liar while he was addressing Congress and denying the very legitimacy of his presidency by calling his Hawaiian birth a lie. They denied him a Supreme Court appointment, as well as many other judicial appointments. In short, they played very, very dirty. I see no reason why Democratic politicians should do no less. And criticism of Trump for this is by no means playing dirty. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/57 "2018-06-15T16:10:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To sum up: there is nothing requiring Trump to return a salute. Neither is there anything indicating that he should not. This is a non-story. It _was_ a non-story before the right wingers set the new standard by pissing and moaning about similar (albeit lesser) acts by Obama. They don’t get a free pass on having what they put around come back around. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/58 "2018-06-15T17:07:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To sum up: there is nothing requiring Trump to return a salute. Neither is there anything indicating that he should not. This is a non-story. I mostly agree with you except that he was apparently advised not to return any salutes from the North Koreans, and he did so anyway, showing yet again that he conducts the duties of his office entirely through buffoonish improvisation. Not that we needed any more evidence of this mind you, but it is one more data point. It also adds to the general pattern of Trump admiring and praising dictators while snubbing allied democracies. Again, yeah, we didn’t need more evidence of that. But there it is. I wouldn’t call it a non-story, but a story that is easily eclipsed by all the other crazy shit that Trump does in any given day. ETA: I wish Presidents would stop saluting anyone at any time, but I doubt that’s ever going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/59 "2018-06-15T17:30:15Z")
I really can’t get too upset about Trump’s possible spur of the moment breach of protocol. The only target I think is worthy of wagging a finger based on this, are those conservatives who are defending who had previously about [Obama’s](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/6580190/Barack-Obama-criticised-for-treasonous-bow-to-Japanese-emperor.html) [supposed](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/obama-coffee-cup-salute/index.html)[protocol](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/presidents-umbrella-scandal-folded-it-could-take/315117/) [breaches](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/4/obamas-feet-oval-office-desk-sends-shockwaves-arou/). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121/60 "2018-06-15T19:14:37Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I really can’t get too upset about Trump’s possible spur of the moment breach of protocol. The only target I think is worthy of wagging a finger based on this, are those conservatives who are defending who had previously about [Obama’s](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/6580190/Barack-Obama-criticised-for-treasonous-bow-to-Japanese-emperor.html) [supposed](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/obama-coffee-cup-salute/index.html)[protocol](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/presidents-umbrella-scandal-folded-it-could-take/315117/) [breaches](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/4/obamas-feet-oval-office-desk-sends-shockwaves-arou/). You forgot [TanSuitGate,](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/remember-when-all-we-cared-about-was-president-obamas-tan-suit_us_59a56bdae4b0446b3b866ff9) I wonder what King thinks of Trump’s overlong tie and Russian-like suit fit? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-common-courtesy-when-a-military-official-from-another-government-salutes-that-you-return/816121.md?page=4)