# It's a Pretty Lame Protest if No One Gets Upset **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186 "2017-09-24T16:38:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/141 "2017-09-25T16:05:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I am also a veteran and agree with this wholeheartedly. I wonder if any of the people who say “It disrespects veterans!” have actually asked any veterans if they feel disrespected? [http://www.startribune.com/wwii-vet-97-takes-a-knee-in-support-of-anthem-protests/447610413/](http://www.startribune.com/wwii-vet-97-takes-a-knee-in-support-of-anthem-protests/447610413/) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/142 "2017-09-25T16:09:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I wonder if any of the people who say “It disrespects veterans!” have actually asked any veterans if they feel disrespected? Nothing in the pre-game ceremony is at all about veterans. Invoking them is just a way to shut off discussion by imputing lack of patriotism. I wonder how many veterans are really tired of being deified so superficially so often? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/143 "2017-09-25T16:12:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m a veteran and I think this kind of peaceful protesting is in keeping with the highest traditions of patriotism and American history. Some of the most important and greatest patriots were spat upon and called un-American in their day – Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr., Vietnam War protesters, Jackie Robinson (who in his autobiography stated that he could not in good conscience stand for the flag and anthem any more) and many more. Their contributions to the country were far greater than many of those who called them un-American. > > When I think about the struggles and trials of this country, including some events in my own military service history, I get choked up too. When I think about the fact that many Americans don’t see the country living up to its ideals in fair and equal treatment, that chokes me up and makes me angry. No supposed disrespect to a symbol can possibly come close to matching the dishonor and harm to the country that so many Americans still truly feel that they don’t have a fair and equal chance to succeed. People should be mad about this. If flag and anthem protests are what it takes to get people talking and thinking about it, then those protests are indeed an honorable form of patriotism. > [@Slash1972](#): > > I am also a veteran and agree with this wholeheartedly. I wonder if any of the people who say “It disrespects veterans!” have actually asked any veterans if they feel disrespected? Thank you both so much for your comments. I am grateful and relieved to know many other veterans who feel the same. The day that American patriotism is defined by mindless, silent idolatry to our flag and national anthem is the day democracy dies in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/144 "2017-09-25T16:14:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The irony is, of course, that you demand people give the National Anthem respect, yet you cannot treat a fellow American with any kind of civility (to say nothing of respect). The people who scream the loudest demanding respect somehow never bother to respect other people. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/145 "2017-09-25T16:21:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The irony is, of course, that you demand people give the National Anthem respect, yet you cannot treat a fellow American with any kind of civility (to say nothing of respect). Dude…quit acting like I actually kicked you in the balls. YOU asked, I answered. I explained. Hell, I even apologized a bit. God fucking damn. Are you channeling your inner BigT or something? What do want? a “man, I think your thinking is stupid…but I’ll suck your dick because I still like you” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/146 "2017-09-25T16:22:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Let me tell you a story of sorts. > > I go to the the occasional thing where the flag is displayed and the national anthem is played. An airshow or two. A political rally. A high school /college ceremony. A military event. Even once in a while a sporting event. > > In many cases I do NOT put my hand over my heart. And I often wonder if somebody is going to give me shit for it. > > But you know WHY I don’t? > > Because if I do, it is often the line between me not crying and crying A LOT. > > The flag and the national anthem mean THAT much to me. > > The American flag IMO represents a shitload of ideals and goals and accomplishments of perhaps one of the greatest social experiments this world has ever seen…with so many sacrifices of so many very good people who I can not even come close to measuring up too… > > I cried a bunch just typing this up. > > So, when some 1 percenter who is a 1 percenter doing the most fucking useless thing on the planet pisses on the flag with some half assed ill thought out protest… > > Yeah, I get fucking mad. That’s a cool story. Here’s one as well: When I enlisted in the AF, there was the occasion that happened to be the first time I stood at attention, in uniform, saluting the flag while it was being brought down at the end of the duty day. The National Anthem was playing on the loudspeakers throughout the base, my stance and salute were perfect. I teared up while doing it, the first time I saluted my country’s flag while wearing a uniform. When I was taught about retreat in Basic, they told us that while saluting the flag at that occasion, to think. Think about the things our country, our servicemen, and our citizens have done under the banner of the flag. It was a pretty powerful moment for me, and something I think about every time I hear the National Anthem played, and yes, if I think too much about it, I tear up again. In fact, I’m tearing up just writing this now. So, another occasion happened this past January 21. I happened to go to downtown DC, in Chinatown, to meet a friend for some drinks. I hadn’t really paid attention to the protests that were going on, and forgot about them really until I came out of the Chinatown metro stop. Where, there were thousands of people. Bands were playing. People were chanting, carrying signs, singing, shouting. Walking down the streets, peacefully, protesting, declaring their views, displaying their political sides, lending their voice to issues they considered important. I didn’t even know, except vaguely, what everyone was there for. And again, I teared up. I’m tearing up now just remembering the sights and sounds of what freedom should be. Knowing that in my country is blessed in enshrining this right of protest and free speech in the founding document. I thought it was awesome. I didn’t know what everyone was protesting, I probably didn’t agree with a lot of it. But it didn’t matter. The right to do it was what made me feel proud. As a veteran, I didn’t serve so people can be forced to stand for something. I didn’t serve so peaceful protests that you disagree with be outlawed. I served so people COULD point out injustice. I served so people COULD have their voice heard. I served so people COULD kneel during the anthem, or burn the flag, or (yes) carry a gun to defend themselves, and all the other facets of our Constitution. Kneeling during the anthem is not a problem. WHY they are doing it IS the problem. Take a step back to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/147 "2017-09-25T16:39:30Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Interesting. > > Just saw a yahoo news story. The gist of the article was that the Bengal’s team owner was “weak” because apparently he did not think football and politics should mix. Or that his players should kneel like all those OTHER right thinking teams. Reading the article leaves one with impression that the Bengals owner/management are a bunch of out of touch boobs. > > Looked at a BUNCH of comments on that article. There was not ONE comment that supported this protest shit. Not one. > > So, who is outa touch with public sentiment here? I for one don’t base my thoughts about American public opinion on the comments from Russian troll farms. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/148 "2017-09-25T16:39:51Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Dude…quit acting like I actually kicked you in the balls. > > YOU asked, I answered. I explained. Hell, I even apologized a bit. > > God fucking damn. Are you channeling your inner BigT or something? > > What do want? a “man, I think your thinking is stupid…but I’ll suck your dick because I still like you” Have you claimed a monopoly on complaining about other people? I have chided you lightly on your behavior, and not your character, and yet you seem mighty thin-skinned about it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/149 "2017-09-25T16:40:58Z")
Excellent story, **manson1972**. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Kneeling during the anthem is not a problem. WHY they are doing it IS the problem. Take a step back to see that. Oh, I think people know what the deal is, but the strategy to deflect is pretty ingrained in some people now and so they’ll try that. In fact, I’m pretty sure that Trump’s tweet started as a way to deflect attention from the healthcare bill the GOP is pushing, his ineffectual dealings with North Korea, Jared Kushner’s emails, etc. As **Bricker** noted, tho, his foolish tweet just streisanded the whole thing into a big, international “Fuck you, Trump” statement. And now people are talking about how black athletes who take a knee during the anthem are somehow more disrespectful of the countries ideals than white supremacists who would take away the rights of others based on their skin color. :rolleyes: Again, your post was excellent, **manson1972**. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/150 "2017-09-25T16:54:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Have you claimed a monopoly on complaining about other people? I have chided you lightly on your behavior, and not your character, and yet you seem mighty thin-skinned about it. Chided me lightly? Seriously? You were even more butthurt than I was. PS. I Voted for Trump and live in a swing state. Chide on that. Man, that’s gotta suck…some guy on the internet…that you think disrespects you…that doesn’t give a shit…voted for what you consider Hitler…and Hitler won… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/151 "2017-09-25T16:58:06Z")
So, if I understand this whole foofaraw, Mr. Trump (plus a few SDMB posters and an unknown proportion of the public) believe it is a firing offense to stand or kneel in a certain way during the playing of the national anthem at a sports event. These miscreants are (apparently) persons who pay the various taxes required of them and who (again apparently) mostly provide a significant proportion of their time or income to various charitable endeavors. They in general appear to have no particular beef with the country as a whole, except for its well known and factual history of racial injustice, do not interrupt play with their silent protests and don’t seem to be doing anything at all subversive except for failing to stand in the prescribed manner during the playing of the anthem. And for this they should be fired. Is any of the above incorrect? Am I leaving out something significant? If not, I’m going to find it pretty hard to get very worked up about the whole kneeling thing. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/152 "2017-09-25T17:08:17Z")
Yep, that’s about the whole thing. Well, the whole thing about calls to fire the people who kneel - the other thing this is about is police officers getting away with shooting innocent, unarmed (mostly) black people and getting away with minimal or no punishment. Which latter I feel is a far more important issue than one’s exact posture during the national anthem. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/153 "2017-09-25T17:12:25Z")
I plan supporting the NFL players and enacting my own form of protest, which will be to stand for the anthem but I’ll stand really slouchy. Also, I don’t place my hand over my heart. WTF is up with that shit? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/154 "2017-09-25T17:28:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I plan supporting the NFL players and enacting my own form of protest, which will be to stand for the anthem but I’ll stand really slouchy. Also, I don’t place my hand over my heart. WTF is up with that shit? That’s to prevent it from leaping out of your chest over the pride you have in your country. I mean, duh. Also, I’m aware that you are supposed to remove your hat for the anthem, but what if you’re wearing a toupee? Does that come off too? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/155 "2017-09-25T17:37:57Z")
Modern America. For a network financed by kleptocrats to fill the airwaves and cables with pernicious lies, blared with gigawatts of power, is the NewSpeak version of Free Speech, “American freedom at its finest.” OTOH, these black athletes who protest police behavior silently should be fired or arrested. Welcome to the sorry sick country that once was so great. > [@Loach](#): > > In this case I think any message is lost and is basically not even being discussed over the issue of disrespect to the flag and the country. I can’t watch NFL where I live. Do the sportscasters (or other news channels) discuss the reason for the protests? They should and right-thinking Americans should boycott the news channels that do not. Obviously FoxNews won’t tell the truth, but what about ESPN? Is it true that the right-wing now has such a stronghold on #FakeFacts that most Americans are unclear about the reason for these protests? > [@billfish678](#): > > You don’t understand the concept of “intellectual equivalence” apparently. I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean. To test my hypothesis I ask you to tell us what, if anything, you do think they mean. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/156 "2017-09-25T17:40:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > President Trump’s latest outrage is, apparently, over professional athletes daring to kneel down during the national anthem instead of standing. He wants them suspended or fired for this. As do millions of others. He simply said what the rest of us are thinking. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/157 "2017-09-25T17:40:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean. To test my hypothesis I ask you to tell us what, if anything, you do think they mean. I used words. Get a dictionary and figure it out for yourself. PS. I might let you know if I think you are wrong. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/158 "2017-09-25T17:42:20Z")
Just saw a quote: “Thinking that these football players are protesting the flag is like thinking that Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation.” I guess if the president is stupid enough to think that, then it makes it OK for others as well. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/159 "2017-09-25T17:47:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > As do millions of others. He simply said what the rest of us are thinking. Can you explain a little more? Why exactly are you thinking this? If they continue to do their jobs, which is to play the game of football, why should they be fired for exercising their right to protest in a peaceful and non-disruptive manner? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186/160 "2017-09-25T17:52:41Z")
Seeing veterans speak out in favor of the protest, and non veterans speak out against it, really makes me wonder at the cognitive dissonance involved. How can people who never served get all up in arms while people who fought for the country are in favor of it? I mean, when they see a picture of the ww2 vet taking a knee, do they internally rail against the veteran? Do they respect his rights to support the protest? Do they think " well that’s different, he earned it?" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-pretty-lame-protest-if-no-one-gets-upset/797186.md?page=9)