# It's a travesty to end someone's career over "chink in the armor" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 21, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474 "2012-02-21T00:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/101 "2012-02-21T17:14:18Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > That all said, I think firing the guy is going to far. I think that it’s an honest mistake is more likely than that it’s deliberate, and for all the editors that looked over it, none of them thought that maybe that phrase might be controversial? Federico WAS an editor. It was part of his job to review the headline. So, let’s grant it was a mistake. It still means he’s incompetent. Maybe not in an every day normal situation sense but incompetent enough to question his fit for the job. It’s the classic situation: malicious or incompetent. Either way, it looks bad. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I really don’t like where this trend is going, the more we focus on this sort of stuff, the more we continue to emphasize our differences rather than our similarities. It’s quite the reverse of this. It’s bad precisely BECAUSE those differences in attitude still exist. When racist attitudes go away, headlines like “Chink in the Armor” can be used without anybody noticing. It’s only an issue because those attitudes are still prevalent in our society. You aren’t going to make those things go away by ignoring them and pretending things are so tra-la-la dandy that we’re simply overreacting to an innocuous situation. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/102 "2012-02-21T17:15:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just to be clear, I was not implying that making fun of his heritage was common. Maybe it is, but I haven’t seen it. See the link that **monstro** provided on page 1. Plenty of jokes seem to be making the rounds on social media. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/103 "2012-02-21T17:17:40Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > That said, given that it’s actually being used in reference to someone of Asian heritage makes it harder to ignore, particularly with all of the obnoxious puns. So it’s easy to think that it’s just another pun, except racist. But, realistically speaking, why would a writer intentionally use an obvious racist slur knowing that it would likely cost him his job? Because the job of the headline writer is to get people to click through to the story (or read it, if it’s in print) if they might not have done so otherwise[1]. One way to do this is through humor or shock value, and being mildly transgressive is one fairly easy way to achieve one or both. In this case, assuming it was intentional, the writer made a very bad judgment about how his joke would be received. (Or he just didn’t realize it, which is a different kind of bad judgment). [1] For instance, the person who wrote [this headline](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/09/11/eurosport_com_scores_headline_profanity/) got massive, lasting international attention for a minor wire-transfer story that no one would otherwise have remembered the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/104 "2012-02-21T17:23:09Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Edited to add: Plain Chinese in America = Chinese-American, doesn’t it? > Double-edited: Since this is about race, I assumed that racism against Chinese-Americans would also include Chinese from China, but apparently not. I have a lot to learn about racism against Chinese-Americans, I guess. People (Chinese or otherwise) don’t become American just by _being_ in America. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/105 "2012-02-21T17:30:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > People (Chinese or otherwise) don’t become American just by _being_ in America. I know that, but I didn’t think that people who were racist against Chinese-Americans made an exception for Chinese non-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/106 "2012-02-21T17:34:43Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’d be willing to give the writer the benefit of the doubt on this one. I am aware that chink can be used as a racial slur, but I’ve seen it used as part of “chink in the armor” many times and I like to believe I’m sufficiently color blind that the potential racial context wouldn’t have occured to me without it being pointed out. Though I could understand the implication of the OP’s title, I do not pay attention to sports at all so the furor over this is really news to me. > [@](#): > > That said, given that it’s actually being used in reference to someone of Asian heritage makes it harder to ignore, particularly with all of the obnoxious puns. I guess. If I saw this headline in the sports page, I don’t think my first assumption would be, “Wow, they must be talking about someone of Asian heritage crudely.” It’s just a common idiom. Now, I am not trying to deny that words take on their meaning in a full context, and the context I provided differed in a rather important detail. Double entendres have their place precisely because of the sneaky way they can be worked into an otherwise polite conversation, an effect used for crude jokes as well as hostility probably since language was first spoken. If those in the know assure me that there has been an endless barrage of Asian puns and racial comments, then it is quite possible that this headline was an example of a racial slur. But it sure wouldn’t be my first, second, or even third assumption. > [@](#): > > That all said, I think firing the guy is going to far. I think that it’s an honest mistake is more likely than that it’s deliberate, and for all the editors that looked over it, none of them thought that maybe that phrase might be controversial? I believe it is an extremely common idiom in sports. But not being a fan of almost all sports, I’m probably not the guy to know. Still, I agree. > [@](#): > > I’m particularly peeved that we have to be this reactionary to a turn of phrase. This looks particularly bad because who it was referencing, but will we now not be able to use the phrase at all, or be really careful about who we use it around? I think this has relegated it to the dustbin. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/107 "2012-02-21T17:36:20Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Do we need to be careful about other phrases that include words that can sometimes be used as slurs against groups, or even just sound like slurs, but also have legitimate non-bigoted uses like fag, niggardly, spic, etc.? Of course we do. Isn’t that just common sense? It’s not fair to assume that someone is a racist just because they use a word that has one offensive meaning, but it’s always smart to consider how people will interpret what you’re saying. I think it’s not necessarily fair to compare extemporaneous speech to printed communication, where there is time to reflect and an editing process. But you can rest assured that people would look askance at a headline that said President Obama’s fiscal policies were “niggardly,” at a headline that said Barney Frank is retiring from Congress because he’s “fagged,” or … make up your own examples. I am sure that in the U.S. the non-offensive meaning of those words are less well known than the cliche “chink in the armor,” so it’s not an exact comparison, but it really goes without saying that you want to avoid terms that can potentially cause offense. There is always more than one way to write a headline. > [@erislover](#): > > I guess. If I saw this headline in the sports page, I don’t think my first assumption would be, “Wow, they must be talking about someone of Asian heritage crudely.” It’s just a common idiom. The headline ran undernear a prominent picture of Lin, of course. Maybe a couple of us are taking it for granted that people would expect that. [Here’s what it looked like.](http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=3r8_ZI6m_q2Q0M:&imgrefurl=http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2012/02/espn-apologizes-for-jeremy-lin-headline-chink-in-the-armor.html&docid=XGYuRghSYUkaOM&imgurl=http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/jeremy-lin-chink-in-the-armor-ESPN.jpg&w=520&h=341&ei=ctZDT9nJDKLV0QHum5jkBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=0&sig=100609223608725317349&page=1&tbnh=157&tbnw=230&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=0CFEQrQMwAg&tx=143&ty=76) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/108 "2012-02-21T17:46:22Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I know that, but I didn’t think that people who were racist against Chinese-Americans made an exception for Chinese non-Americans. We weren’t talking about “people who were racist against Chinese-Americans”. We were talking about a news story you thought was racist because Jeremy Lin couldn’t possibly be the only Asian-American player in the NBA - and about Yao Ming, who you appear to have thought was also Chinese-American. > [@](#): > > So that should be the story: professional basketball is systemically racist against people of Asian descent, so much so that (unbelievably) there hasn’t been a single Chinese-American player before this guy. (Checks online: what about Yao Ming?) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/109 "2012-02-21T18:02:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We weren’t talking about “people who were racist against Chinese-Americans”. We were talking about a news story you thought was racist because Jeremy Lin couldn’t possibly be the only Asian-American player in the NBA - and about Yao Ming, who you appear to have thought was also Chinese-American. Yao Ming is undeniably of Asian descent. He is not, as you and other correctly pointed out, Chinese-American. I didn’t do thorough research and made a mistake, there. Fine: have it your way. Focusing on Lin’s Chinese heritage as newsworthy is no more remarkable than focusing on any other player’s ancestry, which the sports networks do all the time. We now return you to the thread in progress. ---
**Author:** ![curioushat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@curioushat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curioushat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/110 "2012-02-21T18:08:37Z")
I got a kick out of the headline. I think that is all that matters to me. If others have a problem with it, they should voice their concern to ESPN, which they did. ESPN handled the manner internally and made the best decision that they felt they could make, which was to appease the complaints by terminating the employee. It’s not fair, but then again it’s also not fair how in many states employees can be fired for being gay, or terminated due to an arrest or conviction. The bottom line is that if an employer does not wish to have you on payroll then you’re fired. It’s clearly designed to be a pun, whether or not the headliner was trying to be offensive was irrelevant. His intent is irrelevant as more people were adamantly outraged than adamantly amused. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/111 "2012-02-21T18:14:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Fine: have it your way. Focusing on Lin’s Chinese heritage as newsworthy is no more remarkable than focusing on any other player’s ancestry, which the sports networks do all the time. We now return you to the thread in progress. It’s newsworthy in the same way that it was newsworthy that Thurgood Marshall was the first minority Supreme Court Justice. It would be _nice_ if we didn’t have to think of Marshall as the first black justice, but we all _do._ What matters isn’t whether we think about race, but whether we make assumptions on the basis of it. ---
**Author:** ![curioushat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@curioushat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curioushat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/112 "2012-02-21T18:22:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s newsworthy in the same way that it was newsworthy that Thurgood Marshall was the first minority Supreme Court Justice. It would be _nice_ if we didn’t have to think of Marshall as the first black justice, but we all _do._ What matters isn’t whether we think about race, but whether we make assumptions on the basis of it. Correct, it is impossible due to the human condition not to notice the difference between ourselves and others, and to pass judgments based on this. I guarantee that everyone passes some sort of judgment the instant they receive any information about another, whether it be that person’s opinions, physical appearance, relationships, or reputation. Lin is no different. It’s newsworthy because the Asian American population is heavily underrepresented in the NBA if one just looks at population percentage. It is also newsworthy because of the large NBA following in China, and a Chinese American is playing in the NBA. I smile every time I hear a story about somebody from Delaware. It’s newsworthy to me. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/113 "2012-02-21T18:32:38Z")
**"Frank Sinatra Tells a Wopper!"** ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/114 "2012-02-21T18:50:07Z")
If the headline writer was also Asian, would the same result have happened? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/115 "2012-02-21T18:55:38Z")
Who knows? But I can’t help thinking that an Asian-American writer probably would not have written a headilne using a word that is used as a slur against Asians. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/116 "2012-02-21T19:35:13Z")
**"Desi Arnez Keeps House Spic And Span!"** ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/117 "2012-02-21T20:48:42Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > If the headline writer was also Asian, would the same result have happened? If those were the facts, I’m sure some people would reorient their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/118 "2012-02-21T21:44:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is still a variant of the “he’s not a racist, he just did something really dumb” defense. Okay. And the problem with that? I’ll grant you I’m one of the first (and my family will attest to it) to yell that people who make a living using the language ought to know how to use it, but I still maintain that, dumb or not, this could very well be an unthinking use of the phrase. In which case it probably shouldn’t be a firing offense. Nobody is going to care about my opinion and it’s too late, anyway, but I don’t see a good reason to assume malice or intent when quick thoughtlessness is just as possible. ---
**Author:** ![KneeSid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dec6dc/32.png) [@KneeSid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneeSid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/119 "2012-02-21T22:00:20Z")
I guess I’m the only person in the world that pronounces the word CHINK as kink. I swear I always read it as kink in the armor. I guess you learn something new all the time. Archie Bunker used to use the word all the time. Of course we can’t call “chink” the “c-word” like we do with the “n-word” as the “c-word” means vagina. Should it be the “CH-word”? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/120 "2012-02-21T22:22:39Z")
> [@KneeSid](#): > > **Archie** Bunker used to use the word all the time. Do you pronounce the bolded name “Arkie”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474.md?page=7)