# It's a travesty to end someone's career over "chink in the armor" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 21, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474 "2012-02-21T00:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/141 "2012-02-22T03:47:46Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The only person who knows whether he should be fired or not is the person who made the decision to hire him. It ain’t necessarily so. If a boss makes a foolish decision, this doesn’t make him right. (Note however that I haven’t said it was wrong to fire this guy–“all things being equal” is a big if…) > [@](#): > > The same rules that got him the job are the same rules that kicked him out. “He will make us look good. Hire him!” “Now he makes us look bad. Fire him.” If you have no problem with the first, why the problem with the second? That’d be the “all things being equal” part I was talking about before. You argued that someone who makes a single mistake should be fired if the consequences are serious enough. I argued that this is a bad idea. Now you’re changing to a different position–that someone who makes a single mistake that makes his company look bad should be fired. (And also, that no one knows who should be fired except the one in charge of doing the firing–a position somewhat at odds with your other position just stated but we’ll leave that alone.) That’s a different position than the one I was arguing against, so I don’t know why you ask me why I have a problem with it. I’ve stated no opinion one way or the other on this new position of yours. The remainder of your comments center around two topics–entitlement and fairness–which I was not discussing so I will leave you to whichever poster those comments were meant to be a response to. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/142 "2012-02-22T03:49:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He’s 28 and managed to swing an internship into a fulltime job at ESPN. He’ll have to start lower down the ladder, but if he was able to do something like that, I think he’ll be able to work his way back up in time. You don’t think “aren’t you that ‘chink in the armor’ guy?” will likely be a show stopper? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/143 "2012-02-22T03:51:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And my $.02: I find it hard to believe that anyone born and raised in America in the late 20th century would never have heard the word chink used as a slur on Asians. Really hard to believe. How hard to believe? [This hard to believe](http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg). Well, born 1978, DF/W no less, and I do not recall ever having heard the word used in its derogatory sense except as part of a quotation or as part of a discussion of the word itself. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/144 "2012-02-22T03:58:20Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You don’t think “aren’t you that ‘chink in the armor’ guy?” will likely be a show stopper? There are police officers who were fired for doing things wrong, and then get jobs as police officers in another city/county/state. Actors who have fucked up criminally who continue to get jobs acting. Musicians who get busted and go to jail, sometimes for murder, who continue to get recording contracts. Marion Berry went to jail for buying and using crack on video, and still got elected again when he was done serving his sentence. There are even writers who fuck up, sometimes with drugs or alcohol or, say, killing their spouse, who continue to find publishers who will pay them. No, I don’t think his one firing will “likely be a show stopper”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/145 "2012-02-22T03:59:44Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Well, born 1978, DF/W no less, and I do not recall ever having heard the word used in its derogatory sense except as part of a quotation or as part of a discussion of the word itself. So you knew it was a slur, but had never heard it used as a slur, except maybe in a discussion of the fact that it was slur? Do I have that right? Are you saying you’ve never seen [Blazing Saddles](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/)? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/146 "2012-02-22T04:04:30Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The remainder of your comments center around two topics–entitlement and fairness–which I was not discussing so I will leave you to whichever poster those comments were meant to be a response to. If you were just taking a fence-straddling, agnostic position on the whole thing, apologies. But it was your statement that you do not think he should be fired that made me think you were offering an opinion about his employer’s decision. The whole fairness thing relates to that assumption, but also to the OP’s use of the word “travesty”. I would save such language for a situation where the outrage was clearly unreasonable. I’m thinking of the case of the teacher being fired for telling a kid he should go back to Mexico. The details of that case–the kid pretty much being a giant brat, provoking even a saint to tell him to go _somewhere_–made that a clear-cut case of overreaction. But this case is different. The only thing that might mitigate this “error” would be if someone could produce multiple instances of him using “chink in the armor” in reference to other players. Absent that, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt. Either he’s a careless writer/editor or he’s got a really stupid sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/147 "2012-02-22T04:05:33Z")
I don’t think that otherwise good employees **do** get fired for making mistakes, even isolated big ones. They get fired for attitude problems, or a series of mistakes indicating an inability to learn. People get fired for general incompetency, dishonesty, or to fix a PR problem. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/148 "2012-02-22T04:06:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So you knew it was a slur, but had never heard it used as a slur, except maybe in a discussion of the fact that it was slur? Do I have that right? > > Are you saying you’ve never seen [Blazing Saddles](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/)? Never seen [Gran Torino](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1205489/)? ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/149 "2012-02-22T04:57:44Z")
Honestly, even the average Joe knows that that word is an obvious slur. There are only two major possibilities I can think of, here: 1. The writer was, in very poor judgment/taste, trying to make a racial pun (the more likely scenario). 2. The writer was somehow ignorant to the maximum degree and did not seem to realize why his headline was so obviously inappropriate (uh-huh. I bet Kobe’s pretty niggardly with the ball, too?). Either way, who cares about his intent? It’s a huge oversight that hurts ESPN’s credibility/reputation/judgment/etc and that alone is sufficient grounds for firing his ass, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/150 "2012-02-22T05:15:33Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You don’t think “aren’t you that ‘chink in the armor’ guy?” will likely be a show stopper? For a while. But like I said, he managed to work himself up to a position of some responsibility at ESPN, so he has a good resume and probably has a some skills that would impress other potential employers. If he wants another job in journalism I think he’d be able to get one eventually. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/151 "2012-02-22T05:45:11Z")
So, I’m picturing a world in which an article about the Minnesota Twins has the headline: “Lineup Spic and Span with Alexi and Denard” And then the writer claims that see the Span part refers to Denard but the Spic part, well, that’s just a common phrase. Especially when Alexi Casilla isn’t a great hitter. It’s just such a stretch to read that headline as anything but straining to make a pun, and if it’s straining to make a pun, the only potential pun is the one on “chink.” I’m reminded of this bit from Rush Limbaugh: “Obama is holding his own against both of them [Bill and Hillary Clinton], doing more than his share of the ‘spadework,’ maybe even gaining ground at the moment, using not only the spade, ladies and gentlemen. But when he finishes with the spade in the garden of corruption planted by the Clintons, he turns to the hoe. And so the spadework and his expertise, using a hoe. He’s faring well.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/152 "2012-02-22T05:48:34Z")
Interesting point that doesn’t really matter to anybody: “to call a spade a spade” is a mistranslation of something said by Plutarch, so it wasn’t originally supposed to be a spade. Either way, the saying is much older than the racial slur against African-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/153 "2012-02-22T05:51:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Interesting point that doesn’t really matter to anybody: “to call a spade a spade” is a mistranslation of something said by Plutarch, so it wasn’t originally supposed to be a spade. Either way, the saying is much older than the racial slur against African-Americans. I think the slur comes from the phrase “black as the ace of spades” (which I’ve only heard said once that I recall, in a grocery store in Louisville). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/154 "2012-02-22T05:59:37Z")
I think that’s right, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/155 "2012-02-22T06:09:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t think that otherwise good employees **do** get fired for making mistakes, even isolated big ones. This is simply untrue. I, personally, am responsible for major projects for my company, which does contract work for most major oil companies. If I made a similar public mistake, I’ll lay you any odds you want I’d be fired. Oil companies already have a poor public image, and they couldn’t care less about a minor employee for a contracting company. My own company couldn’t care less about an employee which could damage its relationship with its client companies. Then again, since I am a “good” employee, I wouldn’t make that mistake in the first place. Of course, by “good”, I mean I’m not so incompetent to make the mistake in the first place. When we get put into a position to make statements to our clients or to the public at large, we are required to take the minimum of training to avoid making complete asses of ourselves or our company to the press. And sure, there are employees who sometimes come really close to skirting that line. When that happens, there are profuse apologies that I sometimes think are unnecessary (but maybe not, considering the tenor of some posts in this thread). And they are admonished for their lack of judgment. The rest of us are reminded (once again) to be very careful about statements made to anybody outside the company. That self-editing obviously did not happen in this case, and while I believe it is within the realm of possibility it was an honest mistake, I don’t think honest mistakes absolve you of the requirement to take the fall if you screw up. Honest mistakes cost people jobs all the time, and I don’t consider it particularly unfair. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/156 "2012-02-22T06:22:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Like I said earlier, this is not something you need to take personally. You can say it until the cows come home, but it won’t stop me from gritting my teeth every time I read that this was a “stupid and obvious failure”. The logic of how you (who are also not a copy editor, presumably) have the authority to say with hindsight that it was obvious, yet I’m supposed to see myself in an entirely different category because I am not a copy editor…it just doesn’t scan. Neither of us are expert witnesses here, and neither of us needs to be because copy editing is not brain surgery or particle physics. > [@](#): > > Said Mormile, “Anthony had no concept, no awareness that could be construed as a potentially explosive headline.” So, while we still can’t know what was in Federico’s heart, we now know that his boss is 100 percent sure Federico did not make the connection with a racial slur. (Or his boss says so, anyway; but I’m not sure why he would lie about that.) > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Anyway, does the OP have a cite for how he came to believe that this writer/editor’s career is “over”? Federico himself spoke about his career in the past tense: “I had a good career I was proud of”. And it strikes me that people can’t have it both ways. If this was such an egregious failure in judgment on Federico’s part, why \*would \*he get another chance? Let’s say you have hiring authority at some other journalistic outlet, and you believed Federico had shown himself to be a spectacularly loose cannon, and an internationally infamous one. Would you want to take the chance of hiring him? What if he were to write something else in a story that caused a flap? Wouldn’t the heat come down on _you_? (“How could you hire this guy knowing his history?”) Why would anyone take a chance and stick their neck out that way, unless he is their good friend or relative? > [@](#): > > Are you saying you’ve never seen [Blazing Saddles](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/)? \*I’ve \*never seen it, and it has never interested me although I’m an avid cinephile. I did watch about ten minutes of _Gran Torino_ but turned it off because I found it execrable. > [@monstro](#): > > The whole fairness thing relates to that assumption, but also to the OP’s use of the word “travesty”. I would save such language for a situation where the outrage was clearly unreasonable. I’m thinking of the case of the teacher being fired for telling a kid he should go back to Mexico. The details of that case–the kid pretty much being a giant brat, provoking even a saint to tell him to go _somewhere_–made that a clear-cut case of overreaction. But this case is different. Huh, I went and looked that up and I’d say they were different but in the opposite direction. The details make it not as bad as it sounded from your brief description, but I do think what she said was inexcusable (I’d still favour a lesser penalty than getting sacked though), whereas I think Federico’s is entirely excusable. > [@](#): > > The only thing that might mitigate this “error” would be if someone could produce multiple instances of him using “chink in the armor” in reference to other players. I would really be interested in that too. Anyone got LEXIS/NEXIS? He said he has used it a hundred times; so if a search turned up nada (and we could be sure all his old articles were being properly searched), I’d consider that damning. > [@](#): > > Absent that, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt. Either he’s a careless writer/editor or he’s got a really stupid sense of humor. Or he just doesn’t think about fusty old racial slurs no one ever uses when he hears the phrase “chink in the armor”. Or, that is, he didn’t; now I’m sure he can’t stop thinking about them. > [@Marley23](#): > > For a while. But like I said, he managed to work himself up to a position of some responsibility at ESPN, so he has a good resume and probably has a some skills that would impress other potential employers. If he wants another job in journalism I think he’d be able to get one eventually. So explain to me how he’s so irresponsible or clueless that he needed to be fired immediately, but he’s got a “good resume” and “skills” that would be attractive to other journalistic outlets in an economy where newspapers and magazines have massively downsized over the years? Or you mean he can get some low profile cubicle job at an insurance company or somewhere? Maybe so; but that would still mean his career is over. I doubt he was just doing that as a job–rather, it was likely a labour of love. His future is more likely filled with “just a paycheck” kind of employment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/157 "2012-02-22T06:48:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The logic of how you (who are also not a copy editor, presumably) have the authority to say with hindsight that it was obvious, yet I’m supposed to see myself in an entirely different category because I am not a copy editor…it just doesn’t scan. I’m not saying my discernment is superior to yours because you’re not a copy editor. I’m saying my criticisms don’t apply to you because it was not your job to prevent things like this. I do think the double meaning of “chink” - used in a headline that ran under a picture of Lin, in the middle of a national outpouring of Lin puns, some of which were in questionable taste - should have been obvious. > [@](#): > > So, while we still can’t know what was in Federico’s heart, we now know that his boss is 100 percent sure Federico did not make the connection with a racial slur. (Or his boss says so, anyway; but I’m not sure why he would lie about that.) Because he didn’t want to kick the guy when he’s down. I said upthread that I was sure the pun was intended, and I’ve said since then that it’s possible it was not intended. I don’t think it makes all that much difference: it’s a major failure regardless, and even if it’s an accident, firing the guy was harsh but not unwarranted. Part of a journalist’s job and an editor’s job is thinking carefully about language and choosing words very carefully. This is important, and journalists spend a lot of time talking and obsessing about it. When new stories break, editors and journalists sit down and talk about terms to use or avoid in covering the story. It’s important to avoid inaccurate or biased language, unwanted connotations, or potentially offensive language. Failing to do that harms your journalistic credibility. The Poynter story mentioned that ESPN had already had internal discussions where people were advised to be careful about references to Lin’s ethnicity. > [@](#): > > Federico himself spoke about his career in the past tense: “I had a good career I was proud of”. He was speaking about his career at ESPN. > [@](#): > > And it strikes me that people can’t have it both ways. If this was such an egregious failure in judgment on Federico’s part, why \*would \*he get another chance? Because time heals all wounds, people grow from experience, and he evidently has some useful skills. > [@](#): > > So explain to me how he’s so irresponsible or clueless that he needed to be fired immediately Wasn’t this explained already? Millions of people are aware that he published a story to ESPN’s mobile site that had a racial slur in the headline. Intentional or not, that racial slur appeared in the headline of a national story, and that’s harmful to ESPN’s credibility with its audience and demonstrates very bad judgment on his part. He showed very bad judgment, and you can bet that wherever he works next, he won’t be publishing stories unsupervised any time soon. > [@](#): > > but he’s got a “good resume” and “skills” that would be attractive to other journalistic outlets in an economy where newspapers and magazines have massively downsized over the years? Lucky for him, it sounds like he has a lot of experience with web journalism. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/158 "2012-02-22T06:55:32Z")
ESPN is, as I understand it, pretty close to the pinnacle of sportwriting careers. Which means they have both higher visibility, and higher standards for their employees. I have very little doubt that Frederico will find another sports writing gig without much traouble. There are a lot of respectable sports outlets that would love to have a writer with his resume on their staff. Most people who get fired end up getting another job in the same field. Journalism is no different. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/159 "2012-02-22T07:18:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not saying my discernment is superior to yours because you’re not a copy editor. I’m not saying you’re saying that. But rather than just keep repeating myself, I’ll suggest that you can go back and try parsing my point again, or you can just forget it and not understand the point I was making…your call. > [@](#): > > Millions of people are aware that he published a story to ESPN’s mobile site that had a \*word that is not a racial slur, but is a homonym of a \*racial slur, _which many very silly people mistook for the actual slur,_ in the headline. FYP…YW ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474/160 "2012-02-22T07:35:50Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > FYP…YW Don’t change text inside of the quote boxes. We have a rule about that. And assert that it’s a homonym all you like: he ran a story with “chink” in the headline under a big picture of an Asian guy. That’s really stupid, and it’s obvious from the instant reaction to the story that a lot of people understood there was a potential racial interpretation of that headline. You can say they’re being silly but I think they saw something that is hard to miss. His job required careful word choices and he made a very careless choice in a very public way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-travesty-to-end-someones-career-over-chink-in-the-armor/613474.md?page=9)