# It's a Wonderful Life - Do you like it or not?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** movies
**Created:** [December 17, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638 "2009-12-17T14:56:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 17
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/321 "2020-12-24T22:33:54Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> …Sure, we have to accept the conceit that Clarence was able to alleviate that depression with his stunt, but he is an angel and seems to have miraculous powers…
_Seems_ to?
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/322 "2020-12-25T22:30:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> _Seems_ to?
Well, _someone_ has powers. Clarence just asks JOSEPH! for help. He can’t even see Earth without assistance. 🙂
PS just watched it for this year: still great.
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### Author:  [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/323 "2020-12-26T00:36:07Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> You may not like the film, but in no way is anyone in the film co-dependent. That term gets overused. Codependency is an “excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, typically one who requires support on account of an illness or addiction.” It basically describes someone who gets their life worth by being an enabler to their partner.
Here are three articles which touch on George Bailey’s codependency issues in the film. Note that each article identifies his “partner” as Bedford Falls, not his wife Mary:
> **[It's a Wonderful Life](https://repurposeyourpurpose.com/its-a-wonderful-life/)**
>
> Watching "It's a Wonderful Life" as a career coach I am surprised at both what I find unhelpful and the timelessness of one core message in the story...
> **[It's A Wonderful Life - Dan Griffin](https://dangriffin.com/its-a-wonderful-life/)**
>
> I can’t go a year without watching It’s A Wonderful Life. Just the right touch of darkness with a powerful and indistinguishable glowing light to always carry us through. In many ways it is the perfect recovery movie. My heart goes out...
> **[It’s a (not so) Wonderful Life](https://somethingtosayafterabusecom.wordpress.com/2017/04/24/its-a-not-so-wonderful-life/)**
>
> I love inspiring movies, I really do. Give me a (deserved) happy ending any day. I believe in the power of storytelling to transform hearts and minds, and point people toward what’s good, bea…
“Helping others is noble, but when it replaces your soul’s work, it’s codependent.”
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/324 "2020-12-26T01:07:40Z")
I was going to open this thread yesterday, eventhough I hadn’t seen it in years… but couldn’t think of anything new to add…only so many ways you can say “Hallmark-esque movies are evil”.
But it was on TV last night, and it is _not_ a Hallmark Xmas movie. I caught it from the scene referenced above where George gets thrown out of Martini’s and confronts the horror of what’s going on…and by the end of the film, I had tears running down my cheeks.
So, alas, my hardened Film Crit street cred is gone… I’ll let myself out.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/325 "2020-12-26T16:32:20Z")
So, in this thread and the other one, there was some mention that It’s a Wonderful Life wasn’t thought of as a Christmas movie at the time that it was made. But I don’t think that quite gets at it: It seems to me that, at that time, the concept of “a Christmas movie” simply didn’t exist at all. I mean, consider Miracle on 34th Street. That one’s absolutely, unambiguously, completely, a Christmas movie, right? But it was released in May. If Hollywood didn’t think of Miracle on 34th Street as a Christmas movie, clearly they didn’t think of any movie that way.
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### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/326 "2020-12-26T16:49:25Z")
Mrs. L turned it on yesterday. Really odd, all these people knowing each other.
I mean, here’s what I know about the neighbor to my west: she’s single and her name is Beth, but I couldn’t pick her out of a police lineup. Here’s what I know about the neighbors to my east: they’re gay, we sometimes smell the weed they smoke outside in the summer. I don’t know their names.
I think that’s the lens the movie needs to be viewed through. Is it codependence or a high degree of interdependence? In those days, sticking together was a necessity for survival. Just like some “normal” behavior in Japan might look bizarre in the US, the difference between WWII era and modern times doesn’t make one right and the other wrong, but more or less appropriate for the situation.
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### Author:  [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/327 "2020-12-26T17:01:57Z")
That’s an excellent point. There’s a thread in IMHO I think about what (if anything) is good about living out in the country, and all I can think of when I read that thread title is, if you like that kind of life it’s good, if you don’t, it’s not so good. Same with small town life in the 40’s, if you like everyone knowing everyone else (and their business) then it’s great, if (like me) that’s your definition of hell, then you wouldn’t like it. That doesn’t make it objectively good or bad, emotionally healthy or sick, just whether it suits the people in it – and whether they have the possibility of getting out of it if they want to.
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/328 "2020-12-26T17:39:12Z")
Interesting… we’d never live in the country, we’re in a good-sized city, _but_ our neighborhood is very close. I can name everyone on our block and the next, their kids and of course their dogs (okay, there’s one couple that we call Zoe’s Folks… we know the dog better than the humans).
C’mon by, we have Distanced Cocktail Hours every Thursday at 5, bring a lawn chair out into the street… and we did caroling and passed out cookies last night… Oh, my God, we’re Bedford Falls Christmas Eve 1945, aren’t we?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/329 "2020-12-26T18:02:18Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#):
>
> That doesn’t make it objectively good or bad, emotionally healthy or sick, just whether it suits the people in it – and whether they have the possibility of getting out of it if they want to.
And sometimes, like with Violet, the way you get out if you want to is by knowing the right people to help you.
@digs, that’s my mom’s neighborhood, too. One day, a decade or so back, she decided that instead of complaining about how nobody these days knows their neighbors, she would do something about it. So she went around to all of the houses and dropped off invitations to a yard party. This year’s been a bit weird, of course, but other than that, they’ve had a few every year since then.
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### Author:  [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/330 "2020-12-26T18:12:15Z")
I first saw the film when I was in college, back when the copyright expired and it was played on every channel. I caught a bit of it on TV the other night–my favorite scene, with Sheldon Leonard (Nick), “out you pixies go, through the door or out the window!”
While it’s better than most of the Christmas crap, I’m sick of it. My wife wants to watch it and _A Christmas Story_ every year, and I’d rather skip it.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/331 "2020-12-26T18:13:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> One day, a decade or so back, she decided that instead of complaining about how nobody these days knows their neighbors, she would do something about it. So she went around to all of the houses and dropped off invitations to a yard party. This year’s been a bit weird, of course, but other than that, they’ve had a few every year since then.
That’s like my sister’s neighborhood down in Texas. One couple had been putting on a huge Christmas party every year; when they grew too old for all that preparation, another family started hosting.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/332 "2020-12-26T20:27:37Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#):
>
> Really odd, all these people knowing each other.
What I find odd is not that every knows each other, but that there are scenes where no one seems to know George!
Example: when he asks Violet to go skinny dipping in the falls and climb to the top of Mt Crumpet I mean Mt Bedford to watch the sunrise, and there is all of a sudden this YUGE crowd standing around and they’re all laughing at “some weirdo” who wants to act like a child with the town “party girl”. And this “weirdo” is supposedly the well-liked George, that everyone knows and likes and respects and prays for and donates money to.
Or the guy with “the oldest tree in Pottersville” who doesn’t recognize George.
And when Violet dumps the two guys because “I may have a date”, neither one says “with George?”
Even though the word is “all around town” that he’s giving her money.
So how BIG really is BF? Small enough that there is only one bank, and the B&L, and everyone knows George, but large enough when necessary that he’s just some weirdo.
Maybe IAWL is really Violet’s story! She seems to know more people than George. And had a life changing choice at the end.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/333 "2020-12-26T20:53:10Z")
I wished I’d have read Magiver’s post about the Satanic Murder theory 11 years ago when it was first posted. I’d probably still be laughing, and undoubtably missed out on much mirth over the years.
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### Author:  [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/334 "2020-12-26T22:58:30Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> What I find odd is not that every knows each other, but that there are scenes where no one seems to know George!
Perhaps these are people still “stuck in Potter’s slums”, and have therefore never had dealings with the B&L, which is how most people would know George?
> [@](#):
>
> Example: when he asks Violet to go skinny dipping in the falls and climb to the top of Mt Crumpet I mean Mt Bedford to watch the sunrise, and there is all of a sudden this YUGE crowd standing around and they’re all laughing at “some weirdo” who wants to act like a child with the town “party girl”. And this “weirdo” is supposedly the well-liked George, that everyone knows and likes and respects and prays for and donates money to.
George had a lot of friends, but people in the ‘fast’ section of town would probably have considered him a nerd. Remember that he was heading to the library when he bumped into Violet.
> [@](#):
>
> Even though the word is “all around town” that he’s giving her money.
Can we really trust what Potter tells his enemy when he’s trying to destroy him?
\_\_
It’s probably obvious that I like the movie. _Really_ like it. It’s one of my favorites. Which makes mine a minority opinion in this thread:
Speaking of that: people seem much more critical of IaWL than in many SDMB threads over the years. Maybe it’s because the posters here are (probably) younger than in past threads, and it doesn’t hold up across generations?
Capra’s inspiration for the film was his concern over rising atheism. Which has always amused me, because I’m a confirmed life-long atheist. The moral of the story–acting altruistically eventually comes back to you through the community you’ve helped–doesn’t require belief in a supreme being. I admit, it’s optimistic to believe this. Maybe that’s another reason I love the movie so much: I’m admittedly a hopeless pessimist, so maybe it feels good to check that at the door for a few hours a year watching this masterpiece.
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### Author:  [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/335 "2020-12-26T23:04:22Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
Also, the scene where Violet tells him to get lost happens years before he’s seen handing her money to leave town on. So the rumors were years in the future.
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### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/336 "2020-12-27T01:48:19Z")
> [@digs](#):
>
> C’mon by, we have Distanced Cocktail Hours every Thursday at 5, bring a lawn chair out into the street… and we did caroling and passed out cookies last night… Oh, my God, we’re Bedford Falls Christmas Eve 1945, aren’t we?
Perhaps I’m overstating the case of not knowing the neighbors a bit. I’d estimate we know 5% of the subdivision, 15% on our street. But we’ve only chatted with most of them a few times at infrequent parties—it’s not like we hang out together.
Early into COVID, a group of the 'hood had a socially distanced get together but we abstained because it wasn’t (we could see from our window—they weren’t corraling their children or dogs). Beth and the gay men never attend anything and naturally were absent. True, Mrs. L and I have hosted a few wine nights. Once we had maybe two dozen couples come. Another time, only one couple came.
Back to the OP: Economically all most (?) of us have so much more spending power than previous generations. I default to the “Waltons” model, many generations living under one roof with all pitching in makes for economic stability. But that had a cost, tethering everyone to the family: you were born, lived, and died all within a small geographic radius and if your hometown weren’t ideal, sucks to be you. George Bailey had to try to get along with people because he was going to be stuck with them (and they with him) for a long time.
The Building and Loan was probably great, but along came the GI Bill, making homes even more affordable. As people got cars, more mobility took them farther away. My dad died 12 miles from where he was born…I live about 1000 miles from my birthplace.
It’s irrelevant but FTR I will always have a thing for Donna Reed. She was a very good looking woman.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/337 "2020-12-27T02:52:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Example: when he asks Violet to go skinny dipping in the falls and climb to the top of Mt Crumpet I mean Mt Bedford to watch the sunrise, and there is all of a sudden this YUGE crowd standing around and they’re all laughing at “some weirdo” who wants to act like a child with the town “party girl”. And this “weirdo” is supposedly the well-liked George, that everyone knows and likes and respects and prays for and donates money to.
Nobody is saying that they don’t know George or even that he is a weirdo. They are just laughing at how bad he struck out with Violet. A group of his best friends might have laughed at him in that scenario.
The old man with the tree that George crashed into was likely not a customer of the B&L. His house wasn’t in Bailey Park, but on a street outside of town. Just because a person is well known doesn’t mean that every single person knows them.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/338 "2020-12-27T16:19:36Z")
> [@Catamount](#):
>
> His reasoning was that his family would get his life insurance payout. But wouldn’t there be a clause invalidating the policy if he did commit suicide?
That would depend on the details of the policy. As [the Master described](https://www.straightdope.com/21343860/would-life-insurance-be-paid-out-on-someone-executed-for-a-crime-can-death-row-inmates-get-life-insu), life insurance policies these days generally have a limited (i.e. for a certain amount of time after taking out the policy) suicide exclusion, which presumably would have run its course (if it applied; the Master was regrettably unspecific about whether this would apply to the era where the story is set).
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/339 "2020-12-27T19:52:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Nobody is saying that they don’t know George or even that he is a weirdo. They are just laughing at how bad he struck out with Violet. A group of his best friends might have laughed at him in that scenario.
>
> The old man with the tree that George crashed into was likely not a customer of the B&L. His house wasn’t in Bailey Park, but on a street outside of town. Just because a person is well known doesn’t mean that every single person knows them.
Just so.
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/340 "2020-12-27T20:07:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#):
>
> To me, it’s one of those “classic” movies, that I only needed to see just once.
Yeah, gotta agree. Glad I’ve seen it, but I won’t bother ever seeing it again.
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