# It's a Wonderful Life - Do you like it or not?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** movies
**Created:** [December 17, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638 "2009-12-17T14:56:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/61 "2009-12-17T22:53:04Z")
> [@joebuck20](#):
>
> I could be wrong, but didn’t they rip up the arrest warrant at the end? Again I may be remembering incorrectly, and if so please correct me.
Yes, it was ripped up. This action is contrary to the ideas put forth by **Freddy the Pig** and **RealityChuck**. They said:
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#):
>
> The danger wasn’t that the bank would go insolvent because of the missed deposit; it was that the missing money would be discovered by the auditor and George would get in trouble.
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> So the auditors would note the shortage, even if the bank makes good. George needed the money so that the auditors would not notice the shortage.
But the key is that the movie shows the auditor did discover the missing amount. If the discovery and simply losing money under his care was _really the true danger_, that means George still goes to jail even after everyone chips in at the end. If George is about to be arrested on suspicion of embezzlement, the community outpouring of money would be irrelevant to that.
---
### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/62 "2009-12-17T23:08:38Z")
> [@joebuck20](#):
>
> I first saw it when I was 15. It’s schmaltzy, sure, and I can understand why a lot of people don’t care for it. But what can I say? I’m a sucker for that stuff. I’d probably rank it in my top 5 favorite Christmas movies of all time.
> Anyway what do you think of it?
I like it, but I can understand why people don’t. It does open itself open to many interpretations, doesn’t it?
One thing that’s not open for interpretation: Donna Reed was _smokin’_. If I were George Bailey, I would be like “Can we play spinster librarian tonight, honey?” 😉
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/63 "2009-12-17T23:34:40Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> One of my favorite scenes occurs early in the movie, when George is walking Mary home after they fell into the swimming pool at the dance. A man startles them, and Mary runs into the bushes, losing the robe she was wearing. George starts to toss it to her, then stops.
>
> George (with a smile spreading over his face): This is a very interesting situation!
>
> Mary: Throw me my robe!
>
> George: A man doesn’t find himself in a situation like this every day …
>
> Mary: Shame on you! I’ll tell your mother!
>
> George (thoughtfully): My mother’s way up on the corner there …
>
> Mary: I’ll call the police!
>
> George (still thoughtfully): They’re way downtown … anyway, they’d be on my side.
>
> That exchange just tickles me no end.
Lets take a closer look at this scene…
Right after George tells Mary he plans to leave Bedford Falls to make his fortune she picks up a rock and breaks a window to make a “wish”. She then dances naked under a full moon. George’s father immediately has a heart attack and dies which triggers the events that force George to stay in Bedford Falls. What we have here is a Satanic murder.
Looking at other aspects of the movie, George is really nothing but an alcoholic man who preys on high school girls. She admits he was banging her when her mother asks what’s going on. He may also be part of a Satanic cult because he threatens to eat his children in the scene where he runs up the stairs (this after a drunken night on the town where he assaults a cop).
This is a guy who gives money to loose women and carriers $20,000 in cash on his “honeymoon” (adjusted for inflation). Sounds like an embezzler to me. It gets worse, what are we supposed to make of the symbolism in the scene where he deflowers his daughter? This guy is sick.
And what becomes of the kids? One of them is running around with a Santa mask growling at people. If that isn’t a future psychopath in the making I’d be surprised.
I love this movie.
---
### Author:  [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/64 "2009-12-17T23:37:01Z")
I love it. In fact, on Saturday I’m going to my annual viewing of it in the movie theater hosted by Caroline “ZuZu” Grimes. She’s not a little kid anymore 😃
See you in the funny pages!
---
### Author:  [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/65 "2009-12-17T23:43:43Z")
> [@cjepson](#):
>
> I also will watch anything with Jimmy Stewart in it. But overall, I don’t care for _It’s a Wonderful Life_. Frankly, I find it too depressing. Virtually the entire movie, with the exception of the last five minutes or so, is things getting worse and worse, and then just when you think they couldn’t get any worse, they get worse.
Same here. Every time I watch it I just feel sort of “blah” about it, and the “blah” feeling doesn’t go away even after the movie ends.
---
### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/66 "2009-12-18T00:54:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Lets take a closer look at this scene…
Ah, a kindred spirit. We should talk about _Casablanca_ sme time.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/67 "2009-12-18T01:04:05Z")
I will never be able to watch Mr. Potter without thinking of Cheney at Obama’s inauguration.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/68 "2009-12-18T01:50:09Z")
> [@Ruminator](#):
>
> Clearly, any movie about a bank will not torture its audience to a line-by-line reading of its balance sheet. Therefore, it seems reasonable to infer how the bank is run based on George’s fathers comments and how George conducted himself (the bank run, his salary, resorting to begging Mr. Potter.)
Yes, and since the bank survived for all those years, it’s clear that, over the long run, it was profitable – including in the Depression.
This was back in the 40s (and 30s for some of the scenes). Banks didn’t make the money they did nowadays. Businesses were perfectly happy to make a small profit at the end of the year. Shareholders would be delighted at a 3% return.
You’re reading this as a 2009 MBA. The movie was made in 1946 and people thought differently then.
As for your points:
[ol]
[li]Bank run. As others have mentioned, \*any \*bank can be broken if there’s a run on it. No bank ever has enough cash on hand to pay off all its deposits. You have never actually experienced a bank run (there have been few since the Depression), so you can’t seem to understand how this happens. But audiences in 1946 knew that a bank run was a matter of panic, and the panic can be completely unfounded (again, Capra touched upon this in **American Madness** , where the bank was perfectly sound, but misheard rumors led to people thinking it wasn’t.[/li][li]His salary. I don’t see how Stewart’s salary was ever mentioned, but his circumstances were reasonable for a small-town banker in his time. Bankers lived comfortably, but didn’t expect the salaries they do today. Try not to think of things from a 21st century viewpoint.[/li][li]Begging with Potter. Billy’s loss was almost $90K in 2009 dollars. Could you come up with that amount of money in less than a day? I doubt it. The only source of money was Potter, since he was the only person in town who had any access to that much cash.[/li][/ol]
> [@](#):
>
> If we were to pretend that the bank was very profitable, the lost deposit scene would not have the tension it did.
Here’s where you go wrong. We don’t have to pretend the bank is very profitable – just that it made enough of a profit each year to keep in business. You could do very well with a steady 2% profit. But doing that could be precarious.
George’s directors probably couldn’t come up with the money, anyway – they’d have it invested, not laying around on a table. The S&L is a small closely-held corporation; the directors were not multimillionaires, but rather well-off citizens of Bedford Falls who would be hard pressed to get that much actual cash in a day.
Also, even if they came up with the money, the point was that George lost the equivalent of $90,000. And remember again, the was 1947, not 2009. That sort of loss was inexcusable back than. The directors would have at the very least required George resign for this sort of mismanagement. George was responsible for the money; if he made good, then all would be well. But the directors wouldn’t have any confidence in George – and, worse, if there was no confidence in him, they might be no confidence in the bank, either. So even if he went to the directors, George was ruined if he hadn’t come up with the money.
The problem with your analysis is the common one: you assume the people making the movie thought the same way that we do now. I can see it in everything you post. But that’s not so. It’s difficult to internalize, but people in different eras _thought_ differently than we do. You’re assuming they thought and behaved the same way, and it’s leading you astray.
(And now you’re going to deny that last statement. People always deny it when I point it out – and then go on to prove I’m right.)
---
### Author:  [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/69 "2009-12-18T01:52:17Z")
I don’t recall ever seeing it. i will stick with bad Santa thank you.
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### Author:  [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/70 "2009-12-18T03:10:00Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> [li]Bank run. As others have mentioned, \*any \*bank can be broken if there’s a run on it. No bank ever has enough cash on hand to pay off all its deposits.[/li]
I understand no bank has enough cash to cover ALL deposits. I get that. Bailey B&L didn’t even have enough liquidity to pay out ONE depositor. He had to dip into his honeymoon money to do it.
> [@](#):
>
> His salary. I don’t see how Stewart’s salary was ever mentioned, but his circumstances were reasonable for a small-town banker in his time.
George reveals to Potter that he’s pulling $45 a week which is about $32,000 in today’s dollars.
Potter offers him a job for $20,000 a year which is about $300,000 in today’s dollars. The $300k ($20k in 1940) is more realistic of a banker’s salary and that salary wasn’t even a CEO’s salary… it was a salary to be one of of Potter’s underlings.
> [@](#):
>
> Bankers lived comfortably, but didn’t expect the salaries they do today. Try not to think of things from a 21st century viewpoint.
How about thinking things from a 19th century viewpoint: JP Morgan was a banker and he did not live on $32k a year.
Or 14th century Venice. I’m sure the Venetian bankers didn’t live on the equivalent of $32k a year whatever that amount was.
George was underpaid not because he was a small town banker, he was paid that low so we could be sympathetic to his sacrifice.
> [@](#):
>
> We don’t have to pretend the bank is very profitable – just that it made enough of a profit each year to keep in business. You could do very well with a steady 2% profit. But doing that could be precarious.
A precarious 2% is barely breaking even. You won’t find any intelligent investor (today or 1940) that would be ok with 2% returns because that doesn’t even cover the fluctuations of inflation.
If the bank is doing very well (like JP Morgan caliber), then the severity of the missing deposit loses its punch in the screenplay. The entire movie paints the B&L as barely scraping by so the audience can feel the hopelessness of the situation.
> [@](#):
>
> Also, even if they came up with the money, the point was that George lost the equivalent of $90,000.
You said earlier that the point was that the auditor would find the discrepancy. Now the point is that the amount is $90k in inflated adjusted dollars. Anyways, that’s not a lot of money for even a small community bank. To get an idea of the magnitude of the dollars… Today, the minimum capitalization for a state chartered bank in Florida is $8 million. This is $8 million before the bank can be opened to take a single deposit.
Heck, there are middle-class folks today with IRA accounts of $400 - $500k; they could cash out 1/4 of it to cover $90k. It’s just not that much money.
> [@](#):
>
> George was responsible for the money; if he made good, then all would be well. But the directors wouldn’t have any confidence in George – and, worse, if there was no confidence in him, they might be no confidence in the bank, either. So even if he went to the directors, George was ruined if he hadn’t come up with the money.
Maybe we saw 2 different movies. The movie I saw had the directors convince (guilt-trip him) George into giving up his dream of college and worldwide travel to remain in Bedord to manage the B&L. Losing $90k isn’t going to unravel that kind of trust. But I admit this is speculation on a fictional movie.
> [@](#):
>
> The problem with your analysis is the common one: you assume the people making the movie thought the same way that we do now. I can see it in everything you post. But that’s not so. It’s difficult to internalize, but people in different eras _thought_ differently than we do. You’re assuming they thought and behaved the same way, and it’s leading you astray.
And I believe your interpretation of it is too apologetic. Maybe it’s because you missed some of the dialogue clues and nuances embedded throughout in the film. Oh well, it is fictional so maybe we’re both right and both wrong about it.
---
### Author:  [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/71 "2009-12-18T03:44:34Z")
Posted response without reading whole thread - will rethink and may post again.
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### Author:  [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/72 "2009-12-18T03:59:24Z")
In today’s banking landscape, Clarence would have just thrown up his arms and told George to go on ahead and kill himself.
Love the movie, though. Classic James Stewart.
---
### Author:  [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/73 "2009-12-18T04:33:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Lets take a closer look at this scene…
>
> Right after George tells Mary he plans to leave Bedford Falls to make his fortune she picks up a rock and breaks a window to make a “wish”. She then dances naked under a full moon. George’s father immediately has a heart attack and dies which triggers the events that force George to stay in Bedford Falls. What we have here is a Satanic murder.
>
> Looking at other aspects of the movie, George is really nothing but an alcoholic man who preys on high school girls. She admits he was banging her when her mother asks what’s going on. He may also be part of a Satanic cult because he threatens to eat his children in the scene where he runs up the stairs (this after a drunken night on the town where he assaults a cop).
>
> This is a guy who gives money to loose women and carriers $20,000 in cash on his “honeymoon” (adjusted for inflation). Sounds like an embezzler to me. It gets worse, what are we supposed to make of the symbolism in the scene where he deflowers his daughter? This guy is sick.
>
> And what becomes of the kids? One of them is running around with a Santa mask growling at people. If that isn’t a future psychopath in the making I’d be surprised.
>
> I love this movie.
This is hilarious. So hilarious that I’m going to give it the ol’ handsomeharry treatment. I’m gonna steal it, and claim that I made it up myself!
Merry Christmas!
hh
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### Author:  [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/74 "2009-12-18T05:57:24Z")
I love the last hour. I can barely tolerate the first 2 hours. Fortunately, just the other night I turned it on just as George went off on his kids (“ohhhh…Daddy…(sob)”) and the good part started.
Potterville always reminds me of Reno, NV. But can any town that hangs out a sign that says “Jitterbugs Welcome” be all bad?
---
### Author:  [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/75 "2009-12-18T06:16:24Z")
I just don’t see the evil in an occasional dose of sappy sentimentalism.
Besides, I’m sure we’ve all felt irrelevant enough from time to time to wonder if life would have been better had we never existed.
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### Author:  [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/76 "2009-12-18T08:36:10Z")
I OD’ed on the film the year or two it was on TV incessantly. I like it, but I don’t make a point of watching it. If I happen to see it on TV, fine.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/77 "2009-12-18T08:48:31Z")
> [@koufax](#):
>
> I think this is a great movie, although thanks to NBC and corporate greed, I haven’t seen it in years now.
You know, you don’t have to wait until Christmas to watch it. It’s available on DVD and Blu-ray, for sale or rent.
---
### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/78 "2009-12-18T09:17:25Z")
> [@Satchmo](#):
>
> That part almost kept the movie from being released. I believe it was the Hayes Code that said a criminal couldn’t be allowed to ‘get away’ with his crime in the end, which Potter did.
I haven’t found any evidence that the ending almost kept the movie from being released.
---
### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/79 "2009-12-18T10:44:11Z")
> [@Walloon](#):
>
> I haven’t found any evidence that the ending almost kept the movie from being released.
Anyway, any true SNL fan knows that the original ending was lost until just a few years ago.
(It aired last night on the SNL Christmas special about one hour & 20 minutes into it. Alas, the special was ‘hosted’ by Gilly so I imagine a lot of people bailed out before then.)
---
### Author:  [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-a-wonderful-life-do-you-like-it-or-not/521638/80 "2009-12-18T12:49:21Z")
A few more random thoughts:
The guy whose tree George drives into seems utterly perplexed when George calls Pottersville “Bedford Falls.” But given that everythig that was different was because George had never been born, the name change couldn’t have happened more than a few years ago. The old man surely would recall that the town _used_ to be called Bedford Falls.
I’d much rather hang out at Nick’s than Martini’s.
Exchange that never fails to make me smile:
_“Excuse me… Excuse me… Excuse me…”
“Excuse you for what?”
“I burped.”_
Anybody else think George was banging Violet before he ultimately hooked up with Mary? Of course they couldn’t say so explicitly, but it seems there’s a subtext that those two have a deeper history than just being childhood classmates.
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