# It's about time we started branding women. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 3, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491 "2008-12-03T11:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/101 "2008-12-11T18:07:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Of course, it is often illegal to actually \*have sex \*with a 16yo (depending on facts and laws), but that doesn’t mean that _desiring_ sex with a 16yo is wrong. > > If I see a large stack of cash in the bank, I will have a desire to have it. No-one would think that that desire would be immoral. But of course it is illegal to \*steal \*the cash. > > Now, if you see a prepubescent child and have strong sexual desires, then there could be a problem. What I’ve often thought is interesting about this is that you say that it’s OK to be desirous of having sex with a sixteen year old. In other similar threads, I’ve always noticed that those posters in states or countries where the age of consent is, say, 17, express strong moral outrage at the thought of a sexual relationship with a sixteen year old. Those in states or countries where the age of consent is 16 show no moral qualms. It seems that the law directs not only the legal consequences but controls the moral attitude. So those people would be outraged at your suggestion that it’s OK to desire sex with a sixteen year old. It’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/102 "2008-12-11T18:07:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger) 13? I think they need to revise this, as it seems out of date. Even almost 30 years ago when _I_ was 13, I didn’t see too many prepubescent 13-year-olds. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/103 "2008-12-11T18:25:10Z")
> [@MissIntent](#): > > I think boys and girls need to be taught that it’s inappropriate to flash other people. > > I don’t think we should be telling girls “if you show off to much of your body, some man might be overcome with lust and attack you.” That’s complete BS. Complete BS? I don’t have so much confidence in the probity of men. The risk factor is far too great. > [@](#): > > As so many of the men on this board have proven, you can look at a girl and not touch them. Sadly, not all people are as decent as some of the members of the SD. > [@](#): > > The fear is that they will “send a message” and get raped/attacked or some such right? Isn’t that as demeaning to men, to say, “we think you are so out of control that you cannot even see a pretty girl without attacking her”, as it is to women to say “if you are raped/attacked, it is your fault for being attractive”? But some men \*are \*so out of control that they will attack young girls. You don’t think that flashing their bare genitalia could be interpreted as a come on to those people? > [@](#): > > There are people out there who will do terrible things to young girls (and boys, though young girls are kinda are focus here). But they do those things without being “provoked” by sexy clothes. > > I guess what it comes down to, is I don’t believe that men are inherently dangerous. I think they are adults and can control themselves, even in the face of something instinctively attractive. And those who do terrible things are monsters, no matter what the victim was wearing at the time. They aren’t asking for anything more than you to look at them. I agree that some men are monsters that don’t need provocation, but I really don’t agree that some will not be encouraged by blatant provocation. And I do think that there is difference between skimpy clothing and displaying what is normally considered your most intimate part of your body. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/104 "2008-12-11T19:28:17Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > That sounds fair to me as long as we also get what I’d like to see for men: some sort of non-removable identifier that his girlfriend can install on him so unsuspecting women he flirts with know he’s already taken. A charm that says “don’t waste your time” maybe. See, this is the kind of assumption that bugs the hell out of me: that all women are tender, delicate blossoms who need protection from rapacious men, and that all the hitting on is one-way traffic. We already have identifying devices like that - they’re called wedding rings - and I’ve never been hit on by women as much {and yes, I have been hit on by women, quite physically aggressively sometimes, to the extent that could lead the cops to be called if the gender roles were reversed} since I began wearing one: for a certain type of woman, a signal that a man is “taken” is a green light. ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/105 "2008-12-11T19:49:26Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I agree that some men are monsters that don’t need provocation, but I really don’t agree that some will not be encouraged by blatant provocation. And I do think that there is difference between skimpy clothing and displaying what is normally considered your most intimate part of your body. I agree that the situation you described, girls flashing their genitalia, was inappropriate. But that was inappropriate because anyone flashing their intimate bits in public is inappropriate. I still don’t think that seeing a skimpily dressed female is all that’s needed for a man to shift from normal joe to rapist. As another poster pointed out, if you see a pile of money on a counter, you might want it, but you don’t take it. And unfortunately, case after case after case has shown instances of conservatively dressed women being attacked and/or raped. Look at the early entry in this thread about sexual harassment in Egypt, where most of the women questioned were wearing head coverings. Rape in the US and other western countries is not limited to women who are dressed provocatively. It’s not that simple. More of, your argument makes me really uncomfortable because it falls right on to that slippery slope of saying that a rape victim deserves it, or that she asked for it. I doubt your own feelings mirror this sentiment, but can you see how close that argument is? “Women cause men to become uncontrolled by dressing that way” to “She was dressed provocatively, it’s not his fault, she was asking to be raped”? ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/106 "2008-12-11T20:04:01Z")
> [@MissIntent](#): > > More of, your argument makes me really uncomfortable because it falls right on to that slippery slope of saying that a rape victim deserves it, or that she asked for it. I doubt your own feelings mirror this sentiment, but can you see how close that argument is? “Women cause men to become uncontrolled by dressing that way” to “She was dressed provocatively, it’s not his fault, she was asking to be raped”? You’re extrapolating from one extreme example taken from a particular statement. I was using my example to emphasise that young people need to be told about the message they’re sending if that message could be dangerous for them. Not that the way a women dresses means they’re asking for rape. I’ve said it before: exposing your genitals is nothing to do with the way you dress. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/107 "2008-12-11T20:11:46Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I’ve said it before: exposing your genitals is nothing to do with the way you dress. So much for THAT outfit then. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/108 "2008-12-11T20:15:47Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > So much for THAT outfit then. I did warn you. ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/109 "2008-12-11T20:43:08Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I was using my example to emphasise that young people need to be told about the message they’re sending if that message could be dangerous for them. Ok, that makes sense. But from your original example, do you think those girls did not know what message they were sending? Oh, and I am imagining like 13 or 14 year olds, what age were these girls? But if they 13 or 14, I am imagining they know that flashing their privates at guys is going to bring them attention. If they’re 5 or 6, then the behavior has a different meaning. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/110 "2008-12-11T20:56:54Z")
> [@MissIntent](#): > > Ok, that makes sense. > > But from your original example, do you think those girls did not know what message they were sending? Oh, and I am imagining like 13 or 14 year olds, what age were these girls? > > But if they 13 or 14, I am imagining they know that flashing their privates at guys is going to bring them attention. If they’re 5 or 6, then the behavior has a different meaning. I guess 13/14. I don’t really know what message they were trying to send. What do you think it was? Just to bring them attention? IMO, if so, they definitely need a word to the wise. Do you think this is common practice in this age group? ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/111 "2008-12-11T21:11:22Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > I guess 13/14. I don’t really know what message they were trying to send. What do you think it was? Just to bring them attention? IMO, if so, they definitely need a word to the wise. Do you think this is common practice in this age group? Common, no. I mean, I don’t have statistics on it, just I’ve never known anyone to admit to doing that or seeing it, so I imagine it’s somewhat rare. As for what message, I presume it was more about what messages they got back. Young females hitting that “whoa, I can attract men!” phase, I imagine they were fishing for attention. Realistically, they have probably already been told, “hey, flashing your privates at people is inappropriate”. Beyond that, what do you think should be told to them? I’m also looking at this as an extreme example of young girls being provocative, but I am really really against walking up to any girl and saying “hey, you doing X could cause a man to harm you”. It’s really not true. A man harming them is related to him, not them causing it. However, them doing X could cause some unwanted attention in the form of suggestive comments, excessive flirting, whatever. Things that might make them uncomfortable without injuring them. Over time, I think females learn what brings attention. Dressing provocatively will bring them attention, and they can learn to deal with that. Perhaps its better for them to do it and learn it at a young age, where the law is still protecting them somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/112 "2008-12-11T21:12:58Z")
[QUOTE=Some Clueless Westener] And unfortunately, case after case after case has shown instances of conservatively dressed women being attacked and/or raped. Look at the early entry in this thread about sexual harassment in Egypt, where most of the women questioned were wearing head coverings. Rape in the US and other western countries is not limited to women who are dressed provocatively. It’s not that simple. [/QUOTE] Have you ever been to Egypt? Ever? Or any muslim country for that matter? ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/113 "2008-12-12T00:45:45Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Have you ever been to Egypt? Ever? Or any muslim country for that matter? I think this is besides the point. I’ve always been interested in criminal justice, particularly the psychology of violent criminals. I’ve read books and taken classes on the subject. I have never found one expert who says that rape is caused by being scantily clad. In fact, most of the experts that I’ve read argue that rape is a power crime, not a sexual crime. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/114 "2008-12-12T02:15:33Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Have you ever been to Egypt? Ever? Or any muslim country for that matter? Don’t change things in quotes. It’s not cool around here. ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/115 "2008-12-12T02:34:09Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Don’t change things in quotes. It’s not cool around here. It’s ok, I’m obviously a fool because I don’t think those women deserve to be harassed either. :rolleyes: Silly me, obviously in Egypt it’s ok to rape women if they’re not wearing head scarfs, or even if they are wearing head scarfs. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/116 "2008-12-12T02:54:36Z")
I have to relate this (again) only because of the thread title: I own, and pay $250 every five years to maintain, the livestock brand my grandfather first registered back in the 1920s. I let all of my family use the brand as a sort of family crest – it adorns my personal stationery and is proudly displayed in my living room. Several years ago Razorette’s younger sister got her first tattoo, and my wife was seriously considering getting one. Both of our daughters-in-law (fine ladies, both!) have small tattoos dedicated to their husbands, and my wife thought that would be nice. You can see where this is going, can’t you? If not, I’ll finish the thought: I suggested the family brand, on her “flank”. She was not amused. She remains un-tattooed to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/117 "2008-12-12T03:10:12Z")
Oooh, a family crest! How posh. Do you have pics of it? ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/118 "2008-12-12T04:53:26Z")
Um, it’s a cattle brand. I’ll see if I can get a pic posted soon. 'Course, I did get me a copy of one of them there family crests at the Renny-sawns festivals a few years ago. You talk about posh! ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/119 "2008-12-12T05:21:00Z")
[http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/JeffRice\_bucket/JRLOGO.jpg](http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/JeffRice_bucket/JRLOGO.jpg)I think this will work. Here’s the family brand. By the way, will SOMEBODY explain to me how to use the linky thing without showing the URL? Please? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491/120 "2008-12-12T05:34:03Z")
> [@Sunrazor](#): > > [http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/JeffRice\_bucket/JRLOGO.jpg](http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/JeffRice_bucket/JRLOGO.jpg)I think this will work. Here’s the family brand. > > By the way, will SOMEBODY explain to me how to use the linky thing without showing the URL? Please? Ooh, I like it! I know, just a cattle brand, but I don’t even have that. As for the links, in advanced posting there’s a little icon with a tiny globe (I think) and little goggles over it that you click. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-about-time-we-started-branding-women/475491.md?page=7)