# Its all the Presidents fault **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830 "2005-09-03T00:41:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/21 "2005-09-03T04:46:41Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Well, **Otto** , I won’t attempt to defend the post. Not my job to do so. But I trust you are aware that the ACLU is generally the first organization to defend the rights of those that have no US rights because they aren’t US citizens. Um, from where do you get the idea that non-citizens have no rights under the Constitution? The Constitutional rights of non-citizens are not as extensive as those of citizens, but they exist. > [@duffer](#): > > There are many things I’m sure the ACLU does that I can agree with, but most of what I see from them just rubs me the wrong way. It seems more the perception of the group, no neccesarily what they’re doing. Maybe you should take a little time and learn about what the organization actually does before deciding that it rubs you the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/22 "2005-09-03T05:04:41Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I challenge you to cite a doctor that turned away a person needing care because they’re poor. [Up until 1985, it was fairly common. Even then, the only conditions hospitals were mandated to look into were emergencies. Also, this only applies to hospitals which participate in medicare.](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3940/is_200201/ai_n9075644) Obviously every time someone needs to see a doctor, it’s not an emergency. However, even with the law, violations still occur: > [@](#): > > On average, since 1995, CMS regional offices have directed state survey agencies to investigate about 400 hospitals per year and have cited about half of them for EMTALA violations…From 1995 through 2000, the OIG imposed fines totaling over $5.6 million on 194 hospitals and 19 physicians. The majority of hospital fines were $25,000 or less. The total number of physicians ever fined by the OIG for EMTALA violations is 28. ---
**Author:** ![OliverTwistofLime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b487fb/32.png) [@OliverTwistofLime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverTwistofLime)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/23 "2005-09-03T05:45:58Z")
The list I made in the OP summarize to some degree various comments I have read from the posts of Bush bashers…I said I agree with some of them. I am pro life but pro a woman’s choice to have an abortion. I am pro euthanasia if performed under established rules and regs. Bush is against both choice and euthanasia almost assuredly because of his religious convictions…fine…but don’t force it down our throats. He does not believe in same sex marriage…religious reasons? traditional reasons? Marriage is a word…some are lousy…some are good…some are tolerable. The republican party led by our President has turned a deaf ear to halting illegal aliens from crossing into our country. What I think, however, is not the topic here. I wanted to present the negatives attributed to the president and see if you dopers can add to the list…subtract from the list or point out some good attributes we can say about Bush. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/24 "2005-09-03T05:55:21Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Maybe you should take a little time and learn about what the organization actually does before deciding that it rubs you the wrong way. Did you notice the part where I mentioned I agreed with a lot of thier points? Guess not. I was just pointing out what seems to be the majority opinion of the ACLU. Sorry for interfering. **FinnAgain** , those are disgusting figures. Hippocratic Oath? I hear doctors don’t even take it anymore. (Somebody please tell me I’m wrong.) But today, right now (20 years after the law was enacted) how often does this happen? With all the public-funded health centers, I refuse to believe that health care isn’t available to everyone. I won’t mention who was President at the time that law was written. After all, the President is responsible for everything that happens in the country. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/25 "2005-09-03T05:57:45Z")
**16.** That fucking smirk. Man, I wanna slap that from here to Crawford. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/26 "2005-09-03T06:06:46Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **FinnAgain** , those are disgusting figures. Hippocratic Oath? I hear doctors don’t even take it anymore. (Somebody please tell me I’m wrong.) Well, [this says that most, but not all, doctors take the oath when they get out of med school.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath.html) I attended a graduation at Columbia University and was rather shocked to see that when the doctors graduated, they weren’t asked to take the oath. Maybe they had taken it earlier, or would take it later. > [@duffer](#): > > But today, right now (20 years after the law was enacted) how often does this happen? I’d wager not very often, but it still happens. [This can provide some good resources to start looking.](http://www.medlaw.com/healthlaw/EMTALA/index.shtml) > [@duffer](#): > > With all the public-funded health centers, I refuse to believe that health care isn’t available to everyone. > [@](#): > > [Florida Hospital Heartland Medical Center, a 186-bed hospital located in Sebring, and owned by the Winter Park, Fla.-based Adventist Health System Sunbelt Health Care Corp., paid $20,000 for allegedly failing to provide appropriate medical screening and stabilization to a 21-year-old patient three times over a 12-day period. The patient later died of a rare and difficult-to-diagnose parasitic infection.](http://www.medlaw.com/healthlaw/EMTALA/other/new-emtala-fines-reported.shtml) Disbelief becomes something of a stumbling block past a certain point. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/27 "2005-09-03T06:07:27Z")
What the fuck-go for the gusto. Blame GW for your beer being skunky, the crabgrass in your lawn, birdshit on your windshield, and why you couldn’t get stiff with your favorite sheep last night. Christ on a unicycle already! It must be nice to live in an altered dimension where there’s a bogeyman to hold accountable for everything ill that happens. Please tell your therapist that slapping sense into you isn’t working at the current rate. I recommend quadrupling the amount of slapping. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/28 "2005-09-03T13:03:53Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Did you notice the part where I mentioned I agreed with a lot of thier points? Guess not. I saw the bit where you said if you knew what they did about some things you might agree with them, but that you disagreed with the majority of the group’s actions: > [@duffer](#): > > There are many things I’m sure the ACLU does that I can agree with, but **most** of what I see from them just rubs me the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/29 "2005-09-03T13:15:59Z")
You forgot: No Child Left Behind. Prescription Drug Bill which benefits large drug companies and makes it difficult to obtain drugs from Canada. Mission Accomplished! That flight suit… How about Karl Rove? ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/30 "2005-09-03T13:29:27Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > \*\ ***7. Antienvironmental** > > According to the environmentalists that pretty much call him Satan for proposing new refineries being built and oil drilling. Then they bitch about the price of gasoline and natural gas when a disaster hits. Have to call “bullshit” on this one. You make it sounds as if environmentally concerned people are the primary group who are upset about gas prices. Are you suggesting that people who are NOT environmentalists DON’T bitch about the price of gasoline and natural gas? Those idiots who went out and bought Hummers and Expeditions and Escalades and all those other ridiculous gas sucking monsters sit there and smile at the pump? Actually, I see one – and only one – advantage to soaring gas prices, which is that people only conserve energy and invest in energy efficient technology and alternative fuel technology when shortages or high prices require it. The answer to oil shortages is to find a way to avoid using oil. Period. Otherwise, we just swing back and forth between times of crisis and times of complacency. More drilling and more refining doesn’t solve oil shortages any more than building more houses relieves overpopulation. It just masks the problem temporarily. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/31 "2005-09-03T14:03:01Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > That flight suit… Perhaps you should be reading stuff for grownups instead of whatever you pulled that out of. “That flight suit” is what’s commonly known as protective clothing for all personnel in that particular aircraft. It doesn’t matter that he wasn’t flying the thing, it just mattered that he was in it & thus the flight suit. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/32 "2005-09-03T14:06:59Z")
The shot of Bush in the flight suit behind the Mission Accomplished sign was designed for a campaign commercial. Remember Bush’s [waffling](http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/) on why the sign was placed there? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/33 "2005-09-03T14:10:52Z")
Then talk about the sign, the comment itself, but give the childish and asinine and absolutely ignorant griping about the flight suit a rest. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/34 "2005-09-03T14:12:57Z")
p.s. And once you do, then you’ll get your tush handed to you. ISTR there being more than a couple of military folks–the folks he was visiting–quite pleased to see him there, bolstering their morale–something one would think a CinC would be expected to do from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/35 "2005-09-03T14:17:22Z")
The whole flight onto the carrier was a farce. The ship and its men were kept at sea an extra day just so Bush could land on it. He could easily have landed by helicopter but chose the more dramatic entry. And the cameras were pointed to the open sea on one side of the ship, not the nearby shore on the other. If I had to pick one boneheaded thing, and believe me it’s tough, I’d go for preventing Medicare from negotiating a price with drug companies. A transparent giveaway to the pharmaceutical lobby. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/36 "2005-09-03T16:32:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If I had to pick one boneheaded thing, and believe me it’s tough, I’d go for preventing Medicare from negotiating a price with drug companies. A transparent giveaway to the pharmaceutical lobby. You mean he didn’t have a transparent giveaway to the oil companies as well? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/37 "2005-09-03T16:34:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > p.s. And once you do, then you’ll get your tush handed to you. ISTR there being more than a couple of military folks–the folks he was visiting–quite pleased to see him there, bolstering their morale–something one would think a CinC would be expected to do from time to time. I’m sure Cindy Shaheen would be happy to visit with him… ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/38 "2005-09-03T17:04:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Come on **Duffer** , that’s not fair and you know it. Don’t you think there are valid reasons to call him anti-enviornment, including allowing [bussinesses to write the laws governing them and mercury production?](http://www.ucsusa.org/documents/scienceabuseexamples.pdf) > [This, of course, has an agenda, but can you really refute all of these points?](http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200409/bush_record_print.asp) > > Like it or not, Bush’s stance on the enviornment is not a fever dream cooked up by hippies. Finn, The next time you pull up a .pdf file, kindly put a little warning in first. Thanks. 1. The push to abolish inheritance taxes. Pure payback to his cronies and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/39 "2005-09-03T17:15:20Z")
I generally do, and to my knowledge there’s no rule stating that I have to. Besides, this one loaded real quick. Ah well. P.S. Why is it that the word ‘kindly’ almost always sounds condescending? Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830/40 "2005-09-03T17:24:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I generally do, and to my knowledge there’s no rule stating that I have to. Besides, this one loaded real quick. Ah well. > > P.S. Why is it that the word ‘kindly’ almost always sounds condescending? Go figure. There’s no rule. But it is polite. Pdf’s tend to mess with my mozilla so I don’t like them. And I thought kindly sounded better than “hey asshole,” which was not my intent. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-all-the-presidents-fault/319830.md?page=3)