# It's Amazing Just How Badly Bill Clinton Dropped The Ball RE: Bin Laden **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954 "2005-09-04T00:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/101 "2005-09-06T12:52:20Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > That is not the time nor the place. Holy shit. When did **THIS** make it to the top of the GOP-answer-by-rote list? When did it pass “…but Clinton…” and “…well, Kerry would have done worse!”? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/102 "2005-09-06T13:28:07Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Have you ever read the collected works of Cecil Adams? He frequenlty insults people as he sets them straight. That is the way things work around here. Well, using this logic, **TVeblen** should have insulted **BMax** , since **BMax** was the one being “set straight” with a warning. If you think it’s OK for a moderator to insult a poster _while exercising their duties as moderator_, that’s your business. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/103 "2005-09-06T15:38:12Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > If you think it’s OK for a moderator to insult a poster _while exercising their duties as moderator_, that’s your business. Contrawise, Is it any of your business how sweetly they speak when they rebuke a poster? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/104 "2005-09-06T15:59:08Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Contrawise, Is it any of your business how sweetly they speak when they rebuke a poster? No, it isn’t my business, on a personal level. But as a registered member of this board, I have the right to criticize moderators when I think they are in the wrong. I’m calling **TVeblen** on what I feel was an abuse of the moderator privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/105 "2005-09-06T16:16:27Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I’m calling **TVeblen** on what I feel was an abuse of the moderator privileges. I suppose that in a timewasting kinda way you have the right, but as far as a case, you don’t have a leg to stand on, as Arnold Winkelried,an administrator said: > [@](#): > > The flawed logic that you expect us to take your complaint seriously. But now I see your point of view. My response to your complaint is “Pardon me if I don’t cry a fuckin’ river over this.” 😛 > > \ If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/106 "2005-09-06T16:18:18Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Well, using this logic, **TVeblen** should have insulted **BMax** , since **BMax** was the one being “set straight” with a warning. > > If you think it’s OK for a moderator to insult a poster _while exercising their duties as moderator_, that’s your business. OK, sorry I’ve been away all day, I stand corrected, _mea culpa_, Next time I have a suspicion that someone is just trying to get someone’s goat, I won’t accuse them of hiding under a bridge waiting under the bridge waiting for them to cross. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/107 "2005-09-06T16:19:58Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > OK, sorry I’ve been away all day, I stand corrected, _mea culpa_, Next time I have a suspicion that someone is just trying to get someone’s goat, I won’t accuse them of hiding under a bridge waiting under the bridge waiting for them to cross. and there’s no bridge under the bridge. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/108 "2005-09-06T16:24:30Z")
Remember, kids! When all else fails, blame the Liberal Media! I just don’t understand how, being the underdogs all throughout history, the right-wing is doing so well. Must be their superior moral fibre. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/109 "2005-09-06T16:36:58Z")
You know, you Bush-bashers have no sense of proportion. A couple of thousand dead in a meaningless war and maybe 10,000 in a botched emergency rescue mission-- that’s all Bush is responsible for and only partly responsible for at that. Clinton, on the other hand, knowingly sent _over a million_ spermatozoa to their deaths on some flimsy, flirty dress-- probably purchased at The Gap. Perspective people! ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/110 "2005-09-06T16:40:51Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I suppose that in a timewasting kinda way you have the right, but as far as a case, you don’t have a leg to stand on, as Arnold Winkelried,an administrator said: **…snip…** > > If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I don’t think I’m wasting my time, and I’m not the only one who thinks that what **TVeblen** did was unacceptable. I see Arnold’s explanation, and I have to acknowledge it, but I don’t have to accept it as a “carved in granite” rule of the SDMB, nor do I have to stop lobbying for change on this issue. If a moderator feels the need to insult a poster while exercising their duties as a moderator, that can give the _appearance_ of bias, whether any actual bias exists or not. **TVeblen** has just as much right to insult any poster on this board. I just think it is unwise and shows poor judgement to insult a poster while speaking in behalf of the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/111 "2005-09-06T17:04:52Z")
::Points upwards:: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/112 "2005-09-06T17:20:14Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > If a moderator feels the need to insult a poster while exercising their duties as a moderator, that can give the _appearance_ of bias, whether any actual bias exists or not. **TVeblen** has just as much right to insult any poster on this board. I just think it is unwise and shows poor judgement to insult a poster while speaking in behalf of the SDMB. If you come here only to spew out talking points for your own pet cause, you’re not going to get a friendly reception. Both **Reeder** and **december** received their share of derision from moderators before their eventual bannings, and it had nothing to do with their politics. Suffering fools gladly simply isn’t part of the job description. Plus, if _ **Veb** _ is calling you an idiot, it’s time for some serious self-reflection. **Veb** is the _nice_ moderator. The good cop, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/113 "2005-09-06T17:27:09Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Remember, kids! When all else fails, blame the Liberal Media! > > I just don’t understand how, being the underdogs all throughout history, the right-wing is doing so well. > > Must be their superior moral fibre. > > -Joe Nah, that’s why they’re _pooing_ so well. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/114 "2005-09-06T17:29:00Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Plus, if _ **Veb** _ is calling you an idiot, it’s time for some serious self-reflection. **Veb** is the _nice_ moderator. The good cop, if you will. Oooh…semi-veiled threats! Proof of **PP** ’s (hee hee) point. Just joking, of course. **PP** is a worthless steaming load. But, still, you’ve now given him even more marty-mmunition for him to feed his Paranoia Machine. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/115 "2005-09-06T17:30:11Z")
Eh, whadda want, laurels? Yer lucky ya gots a hardy, buddy. If Manny were still around, you’d get it wit both barrels, stuffed firmly up yer firmament, an’ we’d get ta see if we could get a man on th’ moon again. Long-established tradition sez they can say what they want. Ya don’t like it, lump it. Ain’t yer board, no-how. Now blow, before I start tellin ya bout Earth-D an’ stuff ya back in that prison cell with th’ funnybooks. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/116 "2005-09-06T17:48:56Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > If you come here only to spew out talking points for your own pet cause, you’re not going to get a friendly reception. Both **Reeder** and **december** received their share of derision from moderators before their eventual bannings, and it had nothing to do with their politics. Suffering fools gladly simply isn’t part of the job description. > > Plus, if _ **Veb** _ is calling you an idiot, it’s time for some serious self-reflection. **Veb** is the _nice_ moderator. The good cop, if you will. I’m not calling on moderators to suffer fools gladly. I (and I am not alone, as you can see **Gorsnak** and **Revtim** agree with me in this thread) just think it is wrong for a moderator to insult a poster while acting in an official capacity as a moderator. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Oooh…semi-veiled threats! Proof of PP’s (hee hee) point. No. On the contrary, I believe you have missed my point. **TVeblen** , **Giraffe** , and any other moderator or non-moderator on this board has every right to insult me, you, or any other poster. They are posters as well as moderators of course, and that is how it should be. If a moderator wants to insult another poster _while posting in a non-official capacity_, hey, go crazy, that’s his/her right. But to insult a poster _while acting in an offical capacity as a moderator_ (e.g., while warning another poster or while wearing their “mod hat”) is something that I think should not be done. That’s all. > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [snip]…If Manny were still around, you’d get it wit both barrels…[snip] You do realize that I wasn’t the one being addressed by **TVeblen** , right? And just because long-established tradition sez they can say what they want, that doesn’t mean that it’s right. Earth-D? I’d much rather hear about Earth A, B, C, 1, 2, 3, or Prime. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/117 "2005-09-06T17:56:47Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Both **Reeder** and **december** received their share of derision from moderators before their eventual bannings, and it had nothing to do with their politics. Were they insulted when the mods were speaking officially as mods, _while admonishing/warning a different person_? It seems appropriate to insult the person who broke the rule, but to insult somebody else within the “official mod text” seems out line to me. Even someone so richly deserving insult as **Stephe96**. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/118 "2005-09-06T20:05:30Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I’m not calling on moderators to suffer fools gladly. I (and I am not alone, as you can see **Gorsnak** and **Revtim** agree with me in this thread) just think it is wrong for a moderator to insult a poster while acting in an official capacity as a moderator. > > No. On the contrary, I believe you have missed my point. **TVeblen** , **Giraffe** , and any other moderator or non-moderator on this board has every right to insult me, you, or any other poster. They are posters as well as moderators of course, and that is how it should be. If a moderator wants to insult another poster _while posting in a non-official capacity_, hey, go crazy, that’s his/her right. But to insult a poster _while acting in an offical capacity as a moderator_ (e.g., while warning another poster or while wearing their “mod hat”) is something that I think should not be done. That’s all. I think we are merely taking another step closer to defining “don’t be a jerk” to mean “you must pay the proper respect to the SDMB’s sacred cows”. And one of the most sacred being, “All political threads must migrate towards Bush-bashing.” **TVeblen** wanted to encourage this. Thus the Official Warning was combined with a semi-official insult to be sure everyone knew who to attack. Certainly it’s an abuse of moderator privilege. Probably not a conscious one - many Dopers simply cannot conceive of anyone who could disagree with them about Clinton (or Bush) in good faith. Business as usual, IOW. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/119 "2005-09-06T20:15:35Z")
_Hey Everybody_! Look at the shiny, Bin Laden thing over there! No, no, not by the drowning black folks! Look away, I say! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/120 "2005-09-06T20:34:21Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Well, all Bill Clinton had to do was pull the trigger on just one of the _many_ opportunities he had…and we all indeed _would_ be asking, “Osama who?” Funny how history repeats itself, Bush dropped the ball in the exact same fashion with Al Zarqawi. The Pentagon had him in their sites 3 times, and the Bush admin refused to pull the trigger. I hate it when we accuse Bush of something and people say “well Clinton did this…”, so I’ll be the first to admit I’m doing the reverse here. I guess the point is they’re both a bunch of asshats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954.md?page=7)