# It's Amazing Just How Badly Bill Clinton Dropped The Ball RE: Bin Laden **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954 "2005-09-04T00:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/121 "2005-09-06T20:35:04Z")
Sorry, Pirate, D’s real. As real as 1 and 2 and S at least… (3 and Prime didn’t survive Crisis) An’ as fer Veb addressing ya, I’m sayin that if Manny were around, you’d get it with both barrels. It’s tradition. Now put on that happy mask. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/122 "2005-09-06T20:43:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Business as usual, IOW. > > Regards, > Shodan Is there an official date the Right-Wing became a pack of whining pussies? Is it at the first recorded utterance of “liberal media” or is there another specific milestone I can’t think of? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/123 "2005-09-06T20:52:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think we are merely taking another step closer to defining “don’t be a jerk” to mean “you must pay the proper respect to the SDMB’s sacred cows”. > > And one of the most sacred being, “All political threads must migrate towards Bush-bashing.” **TVeblen** wanted to encourage this. Thus the Official Warning was combined with a semi-official insult to be sure everyone knew who to attack. **Shodan** , if you believe a single word of this, I pity you. Seriously. That you could be so invested in your side winning to see blanket persecution in the (fairly mild) mocking of a single inflammatory idiot makes me sad. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/124 "2005-09-06T21:02:07Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > **Shodan** , if you believe a single word of this, I pity you. Seriously. That you could be so invested in your side winning to see blanket persecution in the (fairly mild) mocking of a single inflammatory idiot makes me sad. Oooh…did you just call him an ‘inflammatory idiot’ with or without your ‘Mod Hat’ on? Because, apparently, it makes a difference. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/125 "2005-09-06T21:50:04Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > first recorded utterance of “liberal media” Roy Cohn, 1951. ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/126 "2005-09-06T22:05:34Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Oooh…did you just call him an ‘inflammatory idiot’ with or without your ‘Mod Hat’ on? > > Because, apparently, it makes a difference. > > -Joe Do you have anything of substance to contribute? Or do you just like making pointless drive-by posts that add nothing to the discussion? Just wondering. Of course the ‘Mod Hat’ makes a difference. Why else use it? In one aspect, you speak for yourself. Wearing the ‘Mod Hat’, you speak for the board. Are you so thick you don’t understand this? That is the point **Psycho Pirate** is making (with agreement from me and others). Maybe you are just trying to distract from the issue because you were in favor of what **TVeblen** did. I find the absence of **TVeblen** in this thread telling. – Twin (anxiously waiting for **Merijeek** to post another non-sequitur response to this post. Please don’t disappoint!) ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/127 "2005-09-06T22:11:53Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > **Veb** is the _nice_ moderator. The good cop, if you will. He must be, he banned me. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Oooh…did you just call him an ‘inflammatory idiot’ with or without your ‘Mod Hat’ on? > > Because, apparently, it makes a difference. I think he was calling **Stephe96** an ‘inflammatory idiot’, not **Shodan**. A sentiment I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/128 "2005-09-06T22:57:10Z")
> [@Twin](#): > > I find the absence of **TVeblen** in this thread telling. > ) It tells that I work for a living. You know, like a full-time paying job? FTR, my comment was not intended as a potshot at anybody though I can see how it could read that way. It’s amazing how often posts–and posters–get reported as ‘trolling’ when the primary problem is disagreement with the viewpoint. We’re getting quite a few reports on **Stephe** because his/her presence in a thread pretty much guarantees a flame war. That could be deliberate or just a symptom of a very rigid point of view, but it’s incendiary in board terms either way. My point was that you might think people are idiots but that doesn’t make them trolls. As for a vast conspiracy against conservatives, quit frothing at the mouth and use some common sense. Two days ago I recinded a warning and apologized to **Scylla** , the notable fava-beans-and Chardonnay quasi-Marxist. What a flap about nothing. I’ve heard less outraged whining from toddlers. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/129 "2005-09-06T23:20:58Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > As for a vast conspiracy against conservatives, quit frothing at the mouth and use some common sense. FWIW, I am neither a conservative, nor a believer in any conspiracy, nor a fan of **Stephe**. But IMHO the potshot was kinda inapporopriate. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/130 "2005-09-06T23:37:11Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Is there an official date the Right-Wing became a pack of whining pussies? It’s all an act. When you roll your eyes at disgust after the righties go through their Nth iteration of “woe is us” whining, _that’s_ when they’ll knee you in the nadgers. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/131 "2005-09-06T23:53:20Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > FWIW, I am neither a conservative, nor a believer in any conspiracy, nor a fan of **Stephe**. But IMHO the potshot was kinda inapporopriate. Cite (to you and others) for mods needing to appear aloof when closing threads? Do you see any good reason why they should, or is this just a case of how you would prefer things to be baised soley on preference. On preview, what **rjung** said. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/132 "2005-09-07T00:11:08Z")
It’s merely my preference. My opinion is that official mod statements shouldn’t have potshots in them, or at least be limited to potshots against the person getting the warning/admonishment. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/133 "2005-09-07T00:11:27Z")
Well, I’m a left-leaning liberal Dubya-basher. (Just thought I’d state my position so everyone will know that my position is probably biased). I think **TVeblen** acted appropriately even with the moderator hat on. If I state why, I know l’ll get a warning. Maybe this thread should just be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/134 "2005-09-07T00:29:57Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > FTR, my comment was not intended as a potshot at anybody though I can see how it could read that way. It’s amazing how often posts–and posters–get reported as ‘trolling’ when the primary problem is disagreement with the viewpoint. We’re getting quite a few reports on **Stephe** because his/her presence in a thread pretty much guarantees a flame war. That could be deliberate or just a symptom of a very rigid point of view, but it’s incendiary in board terms either way. My point was that you might think people are idiots but that doesn’t make them trolls. Thanks for responding. I see your point, but that isn’t how I read it. I read it as you calling **Stephe96** an idiot while acting in an official capacity. > [@TVeblen](#): > > As for a vast conspiracy against conservatives, quit frothing at the mouth and use some common sense. Well, I already retracted my comment about this being a liberal’s club. I made the mistake of posting while angry. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/135 "2005-09-07T00:32:29Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Thanks for responding. I see your point, but that isn’t how I read it. I read it as you calling **Stephe96** an idiot while acting in an official capacity. I will repeat the question I just asked Revtim. Even if he was, why would this be a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/136 "2005-09-07T00:45:17Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Well, I already retracted my comment about this being a liberal’s club. I made the mistake of posting while angry. **Psycho Pirate** , I’m fairly certain **Veb** was referring to **Shodan** ’s post, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/137 "2005-09-07T01:09:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And one of the most sacred being, “All political threads must migrate towards Bush-bashing.” **TVeblen** wanted to encourage this. Exactly. That’s why **Reeder** got banned. He was just being too damned obvious. Subtle migration towards Bush-bashing is encouraged. Unsubtle Bush-bashing might give the game away so you get banned for it. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Is there an official date the Right-Wing became a pack of whining pussies? No, it’s been a gradual process, corresponding with the gradual inability for them to support their titular head using facts or logic. ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/138 "2005-09-07T02:00:34Z")
To Psycho Pirate and anyone else who thinks Sudan offered Clinton Osama on a stick: It was _not_ the president of Sudan who offered to turn over bin Laden to Clinton. It was Mansoor Ijaz, a Pakistani-American who claimed to speak as a middleman between the U.S. and Sudanese governments. Ijaz met with the National Security Advisor at the time, Sandy Berger. Ijaz wanted terrorism sanctions lifted from Sudan and said that Sudan was ready to hand over bin Laden. But the U.S. Government doesn’t do diplomacy through self-appointed spokespeople. When contacted, the Sudanese government didn’t know anything about the offer. And it just so happens that Mansoor Ijaz was an investment banker with a large stake in Sudanese oil. By the way, Ijaz is into broadcasting now. He’s a foreign affairs and terrorism analyst for the FOX News Channel. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/139 "2005-09-07T03:38:02Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I will repeat the question I just asked Revtim. Even if he was, why would this be a problem? To me, this would be a problem because I feel that a moderator (when acting in their official capacity) should have an air of impartiality about them. I feel this way because moderators have more powers than a typical poster. Much like **Revtim** , this is a personal preference. It seems tacky to insult a poster while enforcing board rules that another poster has broken. How about waiting until **Stephe96** breaks a board rule before he/she is insulted in an official capacity? To **Tentacle Monster** , thanks. I didn’t know that about Mansoor Ijaz. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954/140 "2005-09-07T13:23:52Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > FTR, my comment was not intended as a potshot at anybody though I can see how it could read that way. So saying that his actions were due to idiocy is not intended as a potshot? That is a steaming load of hogshit. > [@TVeblen](#): > > It’s amazing how often posts–and posters–get reported as ‘trolling’ when the primary problem is disagreement with the viewpoint. We’re getting quite a few reports on **Stephe** because his/her presence in a thread pretty much guarantees a flame war. That could be deliberate or just a symptom of a very rigid point of view, but it’s incendiary in board terms either way. You did notice, did you not, that the first sentence above demonstrates that you are attempting an argument by false dilemma in the next two? You note, no doubt correctly, that many accusations of trolling are driven entirely by disagreement with a viewpoint. You then immediately go on to accuse **Stephe** of being incendiary, either deliberately or because he is stupid and has a 'very rigid point of view" (meaning, it seems, flaming any American President other than Bush). The fallacy being, of course, that disagreement with a view point is also what makes a thread “incendiary”, just as it underlies the accusations of trolling, _tu quoque_s, _ad hominem_s, and flame wars in this thread. I imagine it also underlies the semi-official designation of a moderator that any bashing of Clinton instead of Bush is inadvertently incendiary at best, and idiotic at worst. > [@Twin](#): > > Of course the ‘Mod Hat’ makes a difference. Why else use it? In one aspect, you speak for yourself. Wearing the ‘Mod Hat’, you speak for the board. Are you so thick you don’t understand this? That is the point Psycho Pirate is making (with agreement from me and others). Maybe you are just trying to distract from the issue because you were in favor of what TVeblen did. Sums up my feelings rather well. Thank you, **Twin**. And the most realistic response to complaints about bias has already been posted: > [@](#): > > The flawed logic that you expect us to take your complaint seriously. But now I see your point of view. My response to your complaint is “Pardon me if I don’t cry a fuckin’ river over this.” I suppose I should be surprised. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-amazing-just-how-badly-bill-clinton-dropped-the-ball-re-bin-laden/319954.md?page=8)