# It's an Enigma. Part II: After the Math Riddle **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 15, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832 "2009-06-15T14:20:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/103 "2009-06-17T20:57:49Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > I think they’re reading this thread. There’s alt-text on that pic that wasn’t there before. > > When I first looked at the site, the pic was here: > > [http://869789182725854870-a-demonetise-com-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/demonetise.com/www/images/June20at8PM.jpg?attredirects=0&auth=ANoY7cpjpvZ5hpP\_KVb8tCkr80Cph87uVBANj2OO\_u7cnPNUt8L726YtjLvubRCYRCjAabT8yK-TeFRzDDemMRHYp-UVtZcGtSZYmad7tTqc1eAn6RGcmOiRGI\_aTSIdqbf1UA-J7\_1KUNk8lgnSe2AiAmsAAjvowgsIxBGp3GlPAIvuA\_Tt8g4YlRNuo17rxhRzm9t\_mrCShWjZQDMRyw0rAqslQObOzQ%3D%3D](http://869789182725854870-a-demonetise-com-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/demonetise.com/www/images/June20at8PM.jpg?attredirects=0&auth=ANoY7cpjpvZ5hpP_KVb8tCkr80Cph87uVBANj2OO_u7cnPNUt8L726YtjLvubRCYRCjAabT8yK-TeFRzDDemMRHYp-UVtZcGtSZYmad7tTqc1eAn6RGcmOiRGI_aTSIdqbf1UA-J7_1KUNk8lgnSe2AiAmsAAjvowgsIxBGp3GlPAIvuA_Tt8g4YlRNuo17rxhRzm9t_mrCShWjZQDMRyw0rAqslQObOzQ%3D%3D) > > But now it’s on [foible.net](http://foible.net), and there’s alt-text. > > \*\*\* Ponder I’m not sure if that could be attributed to anyone reading this thread\*, but rather it _could_ be that the first link was set up somehow to notify whoever put the page up that the page had been found and the image had been downloaded. Then, once they knew it had been found they added the alt-text, etc. I don’t know if Google Groups has a download notification option for file attachments, but it would be my guess that if it does they probably used that to monitor when somebody found that final page. \*I have had suspicions since early in the first thread that someone here may have known at least a little more than they let on. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/104 "2009-06-17T20:59:08Z")
I could have sworn I posted this earlier, but it appears the post was eaten. > [@sadrobot](#): > > Looking at the images of the dollar bills I noticed the Federal Reserve Bank numbers (one is to the left of the seal). If you place the cut-out letters into their corresponding bank number location in the domain Great work, **sadrobot**! _Applause_ So I was right, and the other numbers and/or letters on the bill proved critical. With just the cutout letters alone, we would have needed a lot more letters, maybe even all 10, and been forced to do anagrams. Those Federal Reserve Bank numbers just inboard of the 1’s at the corners match up with the letters in the seal. A=1, B=2, C=3 etc. \*\*\* Ponder ---
**Author:** ![Here\_Come\_Dots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cc9497/32.png) [@Here\_Come\_Dots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Here_Come_Dots)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/105 "2009-06-17T21:05:43Z")
I’ve been buried with work, so I’m just catching up. Gotta say, I’m a little disappointed it might be over. I think we need to start a thread of questions to ask whomever created this if s/he does show up on the 20th. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/106 "2009-06-17T22:09:12Z")
> [@Here\_Come\_Dots](#): > > I’ve been buried with work, so I’m just catching up. Gotta say, I’m a little disappointed it might be over. > > I think we need to start a thread of questions to ask whomever created this if s/he does show up on the 20th. Agreed! Wish I could have participated in this one more, but it was good fun watching you guys unravel it. Nice work, and kudos to the creator(s)/organizer(s) of this enigma. Pretty clever work from both sides. So, who here can make it on the 20th? ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/107 "2009-06-17T22:11:46Z")
The alt text reads: > [@](#): > > I’ll be there. Just look for the hottest woman in the bar, and tell her you’d like to introduce her to the guy wearing an Enigma nametag. That’ll be me. I know it’s obvious, but since no one had stated it here I thought someone had better point it out just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/108 "2009-06-17T22:15:40Z")
And I hope he’s not pissed that we “solved” part of the puzzle by brute force. ---
**Author:** ![badlyburnttoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@badlyburnttoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badlyburnttoast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/109 "2009-06-17T22:20:39Z")
And the image name is June20at8PM.jpg. Had me confused for a min I was wondering wtf everyone was talking about. Wouldn’t it be a letdown if we did the whole thing then couldn’t find anyone to make the date? ---
**Author:** ![kjckjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@kjckjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kjckjc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/110 "2009-06-17T23:22:50Z")
> [@badlyburnttoast](#): > > And the image name is June20at8PM.jpg. Had me confused for a min I was wondering wtf everyone was talking about. > > Wouldn’t it be a letdown if we did the whole thing then couldn’t find anyone to make the date? Or if Victoria’s Secret is holding their afterparty there. …find the hottest woman in the bar…hmmm… _Several Hours Later They Post_ “Sorry Dopers…never found whats-his-face…but had the time of my life looking.” 😃 Unless “hottest woman” is also a puzzle and then it might be the homely grandma by the heater in the dead of summer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/111 "2009-06-17T23:47:15Z")
So, is there still any value to me going after the Bozeman clue envelope? I didn’t get a chance to get out there today, but I should be able to tomorrow. Well, any value other than a dollar for me, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/112 "2009-06-18T05:39:20Z")
Doesn’t anyone find it a _bit_ suspicious that the same person who thought of using the Federal Reserve Bank numbers to place the letters, also was able to find the location of the image in Google maps in 1 hour and 5 minutes? (and hasn’t responded to questions as to how he was able to do it?) I don’t want to take away from **sadrobot** ’s achievement, which is awesome, but the sequence of events did raise a little red flag for me. Anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Saffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saffer/32/6440_2.png) [@Saffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saffer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/113 "2009-06-18T07:34:58Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Doesn’t anyone find it a _bit_ suspicious that the same person who thought of using the Federal Reserve Bank numbers to place the letters, also was able to find the location of the image in Google maps in 1 hour and 5 minutes? (and hasn’t responded to questions as to how he was able to do it?) > > I don’t want to take away from **sadrobot** ’s achievement, which is awesome, but the sequence of events did raise a little red flag for me. Anyone else? Yes, I have to admit, I was a bit suspicious but I didn’t want to say anything as I haven’t actually contributed anything myself. sadrobot, what do you have to say? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Here\_Come\_Dots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cc9497/32.png) [@Here\_Come\_Dots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Here_Come_Dots)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/114 "2009-06-18T11:35:16Z")
> [@Saffer](#): > > Yes, I have to admit, I was a bit suspicious but I didn’t want to say anything as I haven’t actually contributed anything myself. While I agree that discovering the location of a satellite photo in a little over an hour is—to put it mildly—remarkable, if **sadrobot** was the creator of the puzzle, why would he go through all the trouble of setting it up only to deprive himself of the fun of watching people try to figure it out? If I were in New York on the 20th, the first things I would want to know is A) was he following this thread, and B) Who is @foible? ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/115 "2009-06-18T11:39:50Z")
> [@Here\_Come\_Dots](#): > > If I were in New York on the 20th, the first things I would want to know is A) was he following this thread, and B) Who is @foible? Alex Schoenbaum from Austin, TX? > [@zut](#): > > I also note that [foible.net](http://foible.net) is registered by one Alex Schoenbaum from Austin, TX, who also has a Twitter account under the name “foible,” who also seems to have some Twitter correspondance with **HereComeDots**. ---
**Author:** ![Here\_Come\_Dots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cc9497/32.png) [@Here\_Come\_Dots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Here_Come_Dots)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/116 "2009-06-18T11:44:14Z")
> [@zut](#): > > Alex Schoenbaum from Austin, TX? I should’ve asked not who @foible is, but what was his involvement? ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/117 "2009-06-18T13:33:01Z")
> [@Here\_Come\_Dots](#): > > While I agree that discovering the location of a satellite photo in a little over an hour is—to put it mildly—remarkable, if **sadrobot** was the creator of the puzzle, why would he go through all the trouble of setting it up only to deprive himself of the fun of watching people try to figure it out? June 20 is fast approaching. If that is a hard date (that is, the only date the Engima guy will be at the location), he needed to push the solution along. I was also suspicious about how some of the breakthroughs were made in the puzzle. I would not be surprised to find that more than one of the people involved in solving it are insiders. In fact, I suspect that the whole thing was orchestrated by a doper. One of the main reasons for my suspicion is that it was all too convenient. A doper is following a twitter user who dropped a clue about the puzzle. That twitter user doesn’t have many followers. It took a lot of effort to put the puzzle together, yet the way they got it going was via a few tweets that could have easily been overlooked but for the inquisitiveness of a single person. Nobody on any other forum appears to be working on this puzzle - did they just get lucky that a doper picked up on the first clue, or was it purposefully directed at dopers in the first place? Or maybe I’m just a cynic. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/118 "2009-06-18T13:51:00Z")
I agree with everything you said, Gus. Like I said, I’ve thought almost since the beginning that something was a little “off” with how the thing started. It was still fun, though. For what it’s worth, I don’t think June 20 is the _only_ time this person (our “riddler”) could make it to the location. I think that’s what the noted discrepancy with the final website might have been about. When the first person(s) hit the “demonetise” site, they saw a link to a googlegroups file attachment download with the picture in it. Then they said the page changed to the image with the date and alt-text. [This shows](http://www.demonetise.com/system/app/pages/recentChanges) that the page was edited 19 hours ago, and at least a couple of times before. So, I think the date was set based on when the puzzle was solved, not that the solution was “pushed through” to get it out there ahead of a deadline. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/119 "2009-06-18T14:04:54Z")
Oh, and another thing I’m wondering about is what the deal is with this whole thing. One of the envelopes had the name “Alex Epsten” written on it, apparently. There’s an Alex Epstein who is a [Randian philosopher](http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_AlexEpstein) who writes about business stuff, the markets, etc. Then there’s [this guy, Alex Schoenbaum](http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Schoenbaum_Alex_1233378265.aspx), who is also some kind of financial somethingorother. The final website was “demonetise.” Surely that word has to _mean_ something in the context of this whole thing, since not only was it specifically chosen (ie., not an anagram of a previous clue or name), but the spelling was altered from its common (American) spelling “[demonetize](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demonetize)” to make it fit with the letters that can be cut out of a dollar bill (and/or because I think [demonetize.com](http://demonetize.com) was already registered). This whole thing seems way too clever to be some kind of sales pitch (financial, political, or otherwise), but it does make me _very_ curious what this is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/120 "2009-06-18T14:23:05Z")
Have we confirmed yet that we have someone that can show up there to help us finalize this thing? It’d be a shame to get this far and not have someone to drop by. Jeeze, what if someone does show up and finds Mr. Enigma, and he hands them an envelope and says, “Here’s your next clue?” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/121 "2009-06-18T14:49:42Z")
I bet it’s a pitch for a time share:) ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832/122 "2009-06-18T14:59:03Z")
I want to state for the record that I am not now, nor have ever been, a member of the “Puzzle Cabal.” There is no cabal. Fnord. 🆒 > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > June 20 is fast approaching. If that is a hard date (that is, the only date the Engima guy will be at the location), he needed to push the solution along. If it was a push, it was way too overeager, and might not have been necessary. When we got to the aerial photo, we still had 3 days till the deadline, and we quickly guessed the right city. With a bunch of us poring over Google maps and other resources, I bet we would have found it ourselves, probably within a day. The Enigma guy could have waited until closer to the deadline to have **sadrobot** make the lucky “find”, and it would have seemed more plausible and not aroused suspicions. \*\*\* Ponder [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-an-enigma-part-ii-after-the-math-riddle/499832.md?page=7)