# It's been years, and I still can't figure this out **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 29, 2001, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275 "2001-10-29T12:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/21 "2001-10-29T22:30:53Z")
Rochester’s ham pancakes are so widely renowned that when the cowboys make their annual cattle drives from Texas to Kansas they always make sure to take a side trip to western New York for breakfast one Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2001, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/22 "2001-10-29T22:40:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Athena \* > \*\*Mmmmm… ham in pancakes… I’ve never had it, but bits of ham cooked up into waffles is excellent. Haven’t you people ever had ham with a honey or maple glaze on it? Ham with waffles & maple syrup is heavenly! \*\* Gotta go with **Athena** on this one. On my quasi-annual pilgrimage to the waffle restaurant I _always_ get waffles plus a side of ham steak. Just so I can dip the ham in the maple syrup. It could work with hotcakes. Yummm! And after this weekend I am not surprised that **Tevya** came up with this logic. Nosirree! Not one bit surprised. I also won’t be surprised if a lot of boy-dopers ask **Sophie** out for pancakes in Memphis. My personal theory on the Cowboy thing is that city cowboys driving cattle across the _pampas_ of upstate New York on the New Albany trail would make a special swing out to Rochester just for these johnnycakes\*. Sure, you don’t see them so much anymore now that the bull market is over, but it was a common sight. [sup]\*We cowboy-types always call them johnnycakes or griddlecakes. Pancakes is sissy talk.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/23 "2001-10-30T01:20:47Z")
I said: > [@](#): > > I got a recipe for pork cops with cranberries and orange marmalade today – guess what I am having for dinner! Then feathlou said: > [@](#): > > Shouldn’t that be “guess who I am having for dinner!”? I just reread what I wrote wondering who would giggle and catch my typo. \< I think we need to do a best typos of the SDMB ever month! \> pork cops…really that was not a slur. \< giggle, snort \> ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/24 "2001-10-30T01:31:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Ham Pancakes. Cowboys Love 'Em! **DAVEW0071** , that’s the best laugh I’ve had in days. I once again tremble at your posts. Mind if I snag that for a sig? ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/25 "2001-10-30T12:25:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Ham Pancakes. Cowboys Love 'Em! > > **DAVEW0071** , that’s the best laugh I’ve had in days. I once again tremble at your posts. > > Mind if I snag that for a sig? \*\* Be my guest. I’m honored. ---
**Author:** ![Sophie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sophie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophie)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/26 "2001-10-30T13:13:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShibbOleth \* > \*\* > > I also won’t be surprised if a lot of boy-dopers ask **Sophie** out for pancakes in Memphis. \*\* Let’s go, **HotLips**. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/27 "2001-10-30T13:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DAVEW0071 \* > Be my guest. I’m honored. A giggle a day keeps the Prozac away. Many thanks, **DAVEW0071**. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/28 "2001-10-30T13:28:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FairyChatMom \* > \*\*no, no, no… tossing meat into pancakes is just wrong. Fruit is excellent, nuts are ok, meat is just wrong, cowboys notwithstanding. ack! > \*\* Sorry **FCM** : Bacon crumbled up in pancakes that are fried in bacon grease is yummy beyond words. It’s one of my favorite things to make when camping. It _may_ be as good as eggs fried in bacon grease. And I suspect the cowboy thing comes from the camping thing. Cowboys (in theory) use one pan for their cooking. If they cook bacon, then fry pancakes in the same pan, it’s just one more small step to crumble up the bacon. From there it’s only a short jump to ham. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![P.W.Doodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f14d63/32.png) [@P.W.Doodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P.W.Doodle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/29 "2001-10-30T15:10:08Z")
So forget that I give **wonderful** full body massages and head rubs…I apparantly need to let it be known that I make mouth watering _ham and cheese pancakes_. Now, if you boys don’t like the cheese I can leave that out… How about _chocolate chip pancakes_? I should have stayed with the old belief that _the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach_, instead of showcasing my other talents. So, if I offer ham pancakes…there’s the possibility of a cowboy in my future?? hmmmm [sub] Polly steps out on her porch and rings the dinner bell! [/sub] Ya’ll come ya hear… ---
**Author:** ![tevya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tevya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tevya)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/30 "2001-10-30T15:40:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > > And I suspect the cowboy thing comes from the camping thing. Cowboys (in theory) use one pan for their cooking. If they cook bacon, then fry pancakes in the same pan, it’s just one more small step to crumble up the bacon. From there it’s only a short jump to ham. > > Fenris \*\* I see that you are using my aforementioned \*patented \* \*\* Free Association Logic \*\* method described above. Anyone experienced in that field will be able to see that your theory is derivative–at worst outright plagiarism, at best homage. I’ll be expecting your check. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/31 "2001-10-30T16:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FairyChatMom \* > \*\*no, no, no… tossing meat into pancakes is just wrong. \*\* I totally agree. If there’s a cowboy out there who needs to be tossing his meat into something, I’m sure I can help him find something much better than a pancake. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/32 "2001-10-30T16:48:01Z")
Goodness, gracious, **racinchikki** , you about caused me to choke on my lunch. 😃 Dunno if I need to make an effort to check my posts for potential double-entendres, or let things fall where they may… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/33 "2001-10-30T17:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tevya \* > \*\*I see that you are using my aforementioned \*patented \* \*\* Free Association Logic \*\* method described above. Anyone experienced in that field will be able to see that your theory is derivative–at worst outright plagiarism, at best homage. I’ll be expecting your check. \*\* Hardly…It was a simulpost. Granted the timestamps show the two posts about 5 hours apart, but that’s easily explained by Hiyrumetric equasion: X=The Golden Ratio (X\*C/PHI[sup]324[/sup])/PHI+(Love/Bacon Pancakes)=The speed of propigation of messages on the internet. Since your post left off the BACON part, the speed of light was faster for you than it was for me (as _Everyone_ knows that bacon-pancakes slow down the speed of light.) And don’t try to confusticate the issue with your “Ham” remark. Ham does not possess the necessiary qualities needed to slow down time on the internet. Basic science fact. As a matter of fact, I posted _before_ you did, I distinctly remember it. “Look!” I thought “There’s no post by **Tevya**! How amazing!” Of course, your post showed up faster than mine, but by the formula above, there is hard proof for anyone to see. You’re lucky that _I’m_ not suing _you!_ Fenris ---
**Author:** ![tevya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tevya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tevya)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/34 "2001-10-30T17:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > > Hardly…It was a simulpost. Granted the timestamps show the two posts about 5 hours apart, but that’s easily explained by Hiyrumetric equasion: > > X=The Golden Ratio > > (X\*C/PHI[sup]324[/sup])/PHI+(Love/Bacon Pancakes)=The speed of propigation of messages on the internet. > > Since your post left off the BACON part, the speed of light was faster for you than it was for me (as _Everyone_ knows that bacon-pancakes slow down the speed of light.) > > Fenris \*\* The _Hiyrumetric equation_?! No one uses that as proof anymore. At least not since 1947 when it was shown by famous historian Johann Hibbenschtubbel that the original equation did **not** involve bacon pancakes. The addition of bacon pancakes into the equation was due to a transcription error. While reciting his original equation, Hiyruticus was interupted by his kitchen boy who asked what he would like for breakfast. His response , “bacon pancakes” was misconstrued as part of the equation and was captured erroneously for all time. This explains why **no one** has ever been able to repeat his test results. Now, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you really did not know this and are not intentionally trying to defraud me. I’m still waiting for that check. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/35 "2001-10-30T23:36:37Z")
Much as I am horrified by the quibbling between **Fenris** and **tevya** , as the original poster, I feel I must weigh in. **tevya** , while your rebuttal seems sound, there is a fatal flaw, which I’m surprised no one picked up on. It’s a well-documented fact that neither Hiyruticus nor his kitchen boy were cowboys. Anyone who has read _Culinary Trigonometry: The Life and Times of Hiyruticus_ by Wolfgang Schmeelmetz, is well aware of this. At the risk of this thread landing in either Great Debates or (heaven forfend!) the Pit, I must ask you to reconsider your accusation of plagiarism. Personally, I find **Fenris’s** equation to be sound, and while I have not duplicated it under lab conditions, there is a paper which appeared in the June, 1953, issue of _The Mathematician’s Cookbook Digest_ which confirms this. I just can’t have such squabbling in my thread. I hope you understand. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/36 "2001-10-31T00:10:55Z")
Thanks for the support, **Dave** , it’s appreciated! However, apparently you and **tevya** aren’t aware of Hiyruu’s current work. Please see [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=89260) thread for just one example of Hiyrumetry. The use of PHI and LOVE in the equation I cited should have clued both of you in. As such, **tevya** , you’re actually swiping your theory from _him!_ Luckily, I don’t think he’ll sue. I remain yours in Golden Ratio-hood Fenris ---
**Author:** ![dono](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@dono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dono)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/37 "2001-11-01T16:56:03Z")
I can’t believe this is the thread that’s getting me to de-lurk … But since the OP mentioned Casper, WY, and I live in a small town about 150 miles north and west of there, I felt obliged to chime in. Also, although the debate on Culino-Mathematical Logic is facinating :rolleyes: , nobody’s provided any actual data regarding the culinary preferences of cowboys. First, IANAC, although I get to hang with a lot of them at the bar, and in the course of my job - I work for a federal land-management agency. (But I have to admit that PWDoodle’s post did make me want to go out and punch a few cows - that’ll teach those cows!) If ham pancakes were a big hit with the cowboys, Lucille’s Cafe or the Crossbow here would have 'em. Don’t remember ever seeing such a thing on the menu, but maybe I just haven’t been paying attention. I’ll check. I’ve also never heard any of the 'boys talk about the yummy ham-pancake-stack they had this morning. But I’ll ask. Also, I know someone who cooks a couple weeks for a sheep camp every year. I know that sheep herder != cowboy (although they don’t shoot each other anymore - haven’t for, oh, five-six years now), but she might have some useful data anyway. What I can say is that the breakfast of choice among cowboys seems to be biscuits 'n gravy. Mmmmmmmm … love 'em. Great hangover breakfast. If my research turns up anything, I’ll let you know. Onward, in the furtherment of culinary science! ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/38 "2001-11-01T17:09:15Z")
Wow, **dono**! I’m honored that a thread I started caused you to come out of lurkerdom! Welcome, and thanks for the Wyoming cowboy info. Please continue to fill us in. Now that you’ve contributed, it would seem that the cowboys in question would definitely be Western New York cowboys, specifically from either Kodak, as I suggested in the OP, or, as **Candlemas** suggested, the Xerox cowboys of Rochester. No doubt, they stopped in this particular diner during their Erie Canal cattle drive. I can picture them now, droving their bovines up Monroe Avenue. I sense a graduate thesis developing from all this. Any takers? ---
**Author:** ![tevya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tevya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tevya)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/39 "2001-11-01T17:30:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Thanks for the support, **Dave** , it’s appreciated! > > However, apparently you and **tevya** aren’t aware of Hiyruu’s current work. Please see [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=89260) thread for just one example of Hiyrumetry. > > The use of PHI and LOVE in the equation I cited should have clued both of you in. As such, **tevya** , you’re actually swiping your theory from _him!_ > > Luckily, I don’t think he’ll sue. > > I remain yours in Golden Ratio-hood > > Fenris \*\* After reading that link, my brain melted. Dirty trick **Fenris**. However, at the behest of **DAVEW0071** , I will agree to drop my original accusation. I will agree to beleive that we simultaneously but seperately arrived at the same conclusion. Especially if you swear to never point me towards such an evil thread again. ---
**Author:** ![dono](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@dono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dono)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275/40 "2001-11-01T18:32:14Z")
And I am humbled by your warm welcome, DAVEW0071! Oh, yes, I think there’s an anthropology thesis in there somewhere - “Ham Pancake Distribution as an Indicator of Late 18th-Century Migration Patterns of Various Cowboy Subcultures”. I had a thought while mulling your last post (rare that I would have a thought at this time - I am posting from work, you know)… What if it could be established that one of the cultures was primarily ham-ivores, while the other subsisted on pancakes? One can only imagine the clash of cultures: \ “Hey, yew lily-livered sidewinder, yew got ham in my pancake batter!” “Well, yew snake-eyed varmint, yew got pancake on my ham!” (in unison) “Wait - it’s delicious!!!” \ Your tax dollars at work … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-been-years-and-i-still-cant-figure-this-out/90275.md?page=3)