# It's called an Arnold Palmer for a reason, douche. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2007, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707 "2007-05-19T08:33:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/341 "2007-05-30T14:47:40Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Whoosh. In other words, it is simply not possible that Mariko is a bigot. [/QUOTE] Nonsense, you simply haven’t shown that she is. The way that you are defining bigotry in this instance is so inclusive as to trivialize a pernicious sickness. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/342 "2007-05-30T14:53:29Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Whoosh. [/quote] :dubious: What is the whoosh here? > [@](#): > > In other words, it is simply not possible that Mariko is a bigot. I thought that **The King of Soup’s** argument along with **Larry Mudd** and if you are really interested in an honest debate, then there’s got to be a better comeback than this. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/343 "2007-05-30T15:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Here’s your problem. (I am being as detailed as possible, so that you are able to follow – don’t want you to get lost in my “syntax.” For clarification, I will use my examples in a hypothetical first person as you obviously took offense the last time I asked you, hypothetically) Italian sauce makers make sauce.Japanese baseball players play baseball. Do we agree? I choose Italian sauce makers over any other because _in my experience_ Italian sauce makers have made the best sauce. Ergo, I believe Italian sauce makers make the best sauce. The characteristic here is the good sauce. I’ve pinpointed it. [/QUOTE] Fine. But my grandmother, just like Mariko, simply believes that Italians make the best tomato sauce because they are Italian. > [@](#): > > I choose Japanese baseball players, but there is no equivalent to my Italian sauce. I can’t necessarily say that Japanese players have any characteristic that makes me choose them over any other player. As a whole, they do not play better baseball. So, baseball does not equate to sauce. As a whole they are not more athletic than any other group of baseball players. So, their athleticism does not equate to the sauce. You are going down a bumpy road there. Are the best athletes the best baseball players? > [@](#): > > What equates to the sauce? Playing the game. > [@](#): > > If you read the whole question, you’d see that you could have answered it two ways. If you chose the latter, you’d obviously be a bigot. You called me Mr. Duke. You called me a bigot. I disagreed with you, and you called me a bigot. If you think your ex-grandmother in law is a bigot, then I despair for your ability to “obviously” recognize bigotry. Simply preferring one ethnicity over another, _even for no reason at all_, is not bigotry. Like my preference for Japanese women (or Italians, or Icelanders, or whatever the fuck) as sexual partners. I hereby proclaim that Bulgarians are the supreme lovers in all creation! That may be an ignorant thing to say, or a provincial thing to say, but it is not a bigoted thing to say. > [@](#): > > I do, but the difference is negligible. You knew what I was asking. I know what you said. Please don’t try to blame your inability to express yourself on me. I’m just working with what you are giving me. On preview, what **Larry Mudd** said. Refuting a premise is not the same thing as affirming the negative of the premise. Really. You can look it up. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/344 "2007-05-30T15:06:23Z")
[QUOTE=TokyoPlayer] I thought that **The King of Soup’s** argument along with **Larry Mudd** and if you are really interested in an honest debate, then there’s got to be a better comeback than this. [/QUOTE] He’s not interested in debating. He already refused to talk to me unless I would agree that he could change my mind. Funny how he didn’t have to agree to have his mind changed. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/345 "2007-05-30T15:09:50Z")
I’m not holding my breath waiting for him to be logical. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/346 "2007-05-30T15:13:41Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] He’s not interested in debating. He already refused to talk to me unless I would agree that he could change my mind. Funny how he didn’t have to agree to have his mind changed. [/QUOTE] I am not interesting in debating with YOU, because you quite clearly just said that there was no way I could change your mind. Why debate? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/347 "2007-05-30T15:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] … you simply haven’t shown that she is. … [/QUOTE] Define bigotry for me, Larry. In your own words. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/348 "2007-05-30T15:17:14Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] I am not interesting in debating with YOU, because you quite clearly just said that there was no way I could change your mind. Why debate? [/QUOTE] Wow. She clearly said what now? Can you break it down for me? Exactly where did she say that it was impossible for you to change her mind? Please confine your answer to the specific post where she “clearly” said that. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/349 "2007-05-30T15:28:11Z")
[QUOTE=TokyoPlayer] :dubious: What is the whoosh here? I thought that **The King of Soup’s** argument along with **Larry Mudd** and if you are really interested in an honest debate, then there’s got to be a better comeback than this. [/QUOTE] I liked **The King of Soup** ’s argument. It was excellent food for thought. Larry Mudd’s argument was centered on simply identifying with something or someone thus creating a sense of comfort. I think that is a cop-out and one possible explanation of Mariko’s way of thinking. I think it’s narrow; far more so than the width of bigotry that I’m describing. The only thing I’ve read so far in this thread is that I am wrong, wrong, wrong and the pile-on is just getting bigger. I am not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/350 "2007-05-30T15:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Wow. She clearly said what now? Can you break it down for me? Exactly where did she say that it was impossible for you to change her mind? Please confine your answer to the specific post where she “clearly” said that. [/QUOTE] No, I’m not breaking anything else down for you. Your retorts are pedantic and antagonistic. Her implication was clear. Here’s reasonable dialogue: Me: “Before before I even waste words, is there any possibility that you’ll see what you think you see another way?” Reasonable interloculator: “Sure, present your evidence.” jsgoddess: “I think I’d be happier if you didn’t waste words.” Now THAT’s openmindedness, right there. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/351 "2007-05-30T16:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Define bigotry for me, Larry. In your own words. [/QUOTE] Bigotry is the quality of stubbornly holding ideological views and refusing to apply reason to them or consider any other view, and _in particular_ demonstrating intolerance of anyone who does not also subscribe to those views. If your little old lady made a point of determining the favourite players of everyone she had any social or professional interaction with, and heaped abuse on people who did not subscribe to her own peculiar preferences, she would be a bigot. If she tried to have her neighbors evicted because she heard in passing that one of them idolized Barry Bonds, she would be a bigot. “Bigot” is a serious epithet and cannot be applied to any particular instance of having a non-rational preference for something, particularly something that is ultimately trivial. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/352 "2007-05-30T16:05:25Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] Bigotry is the quality of stubbornly holding ideological views and refusing to apply reason to them or consider any other view, and _in particular_ demonstrating intolerance of anyone who does not also subscribe to those views. If your little old lady made a point of determining the favourite players of everyone she had any social or professional interaction with, and heaped abuse on people who did not subscribe to her own peculiar preferences, she would be a bigot. If she tried to have her neighbors evicted because she heard in passing that one of them idolized Barry Bonds, she would be a bigot. “Bigot” is a serious epithet and cannot be applied to any particular instance of having a non-rational preference for something, particularly something that is ultimately trivial. [/QUOTE] Well said. I’m convinced. I agree. Thanks **Larry**. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/353 "2007-05-30T16:14:47Z")
**faints** Cheers, **Dudley**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/354 "2007-05-30T16:17:18Z")
:: golf clap:: …to bring this back to the thread ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/355 "2007-05-30T17:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Because sauce ain’t people. [/QUOTE] Is it Soylent Sauce? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/356 "2007-05-30T20:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] No, I’m not breaking anything else down for you. Your retorts are pedantic and antagonistic. Her implication was clear. Here’s reasonable dialogue: Me: “Before before I even waste words, is there any possibility that you’ll see what you think you see another way?” Reasonable interloculator: “Sure, present your evidence.” jsgoddess: “I think I’d be happier if you didn’t waste words.” Now THAT’s openmindedness, right there. [/QUOTE] Whatever your point is, it does not address the referenced post. Is it at all possible for you to remain on point? Do you even know what the point was? This is the referenced post. [QUOTE=jsgoddess] He’s not interested in debating. He already refused to talk to me unless I would agree that he could change my mind. Funny how he didn’t have to agree to have his mind changed. [/QUOTE] This is the post in question. I specifically reminded you not to wander somewhere else. Do you see how your response to me concerned another post altogether? Are you that dishonest, or just congenitically unable to construct a coherent argument? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/357 "2007-05-30T20:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Whatever your point is, it does not address the referenced post. Is it at all possible for you to remain on point? Do you even know what the point was? This is the referenced post. This is the post in question. I specifically reminded you not to wander somewhere else. Do you see how your response to me concerned another post altogether? Are you that dishonest, or just congenitically unable to construct a coherent argument? [/QUOTE] I quoted you the original post in question. You know, the one to which she was alluding. Are you really this fucking stupid? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/358 "2007-05-30T20:40:35Z")
The post is right [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8623045&postcount=276). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/359 "2007-05-30T21:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] The post is right [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8623045&postcount=276). [/QUOTE] OK, you’re either incredibly stupid or deliberately stupid. Either way, your ex-grandmother is coming off as being much more evolved. Here is the post in question. Ah hell, I’ll just print it all out for you. [QUOTE=jsgoddess] He’s not interested in debating. He already refused to talk to me unless I would agree that he could change my mind. Funny how he didn’t have to agree to have his mind changed. [/QUOTE] Your response, my emphasis. > [@](#): > > I am not interesting in debating with YOU, because you quite clearly _ **just said** _ that there was no way I could change your mind. Why debate? Now, the “just said” refers to _that specific post_. Not some subsequent post. Get it? She says (A). You respond to (A). You don’t get to pretend that your response was to (Not A). And I pointed that out to you, here. [QUOTE=Me, hoping in vain.] Wow. She clearly said what now? Can you break it down for me? Exactly where did she say that it was impossible for you to change her mind? Please confine your answer to the specific post where she “clearly” said that. [/QUOTE] So, where in _that specific post_ did she she \ ***just say** \*that her mind was closed? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707/360 "2007-05-30T21:38:33Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] OK, you’re either incredibly stupid or deliberately stupid. [/QUOTE] Yawn. I’m not interested in your constant mincing of words. You’re quite clearly an asshole. Enjoy the boards! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-called-an-arnold-palmer-for-a-reason-douche/404707.md?page=19)