# "It's cold, so there's no global warming." Do they KNOW that's false? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421 "2011-01-13T03:27:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/21 "2011-01-13T06:52:26Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > All right. Would someone like to explain the difference between weather and climate? Climate is what you expect, weather is what you get. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/22 "2011-01-13T09:23:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And you think scientists have not considered that already? > > [What does past climate change tell us about global warming?](http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm) > > I wonder who would be making such efforts to mislead the people? :dubious: I never claimed or implied that humanity cannot cause gw. Merely that there exists reasonable doubt that humanity is the primary cause of gw. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/23 "2011-01-13T09:48:01Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I swear I read somewhere that winters themselves could actually become MORE intense, just from the more extreme changes in the weather patterns. That’s right. Hotter summers _and_ colder winters (not necessarily every year, but on average). Storms more frequent, more violent, and less predictable. It’s a fun package. > [@rachelellogram](#): > > So until AGW has been proven…you’re not going to get a lot of people to care about it. Showing a warming trend and proving its causation are two different things. It’s worth caring about in any case. Even a non-anthropogenic warming could wreak havoc on global food production, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/24 "2011-01-13T10:05:49Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > All right. Would someone like to explain the difference between weather and climate? Climate is the predicted/expected yearly trend of weather for an area. Weather is what you get when you stick your head out a window right now. > [@](#): > > I’m just pointing out that if one side had called it “global climate change” from the beginning, it would be helpful to people who think it can’t be global warming because it’s cold. Except, that the global average temperature **is** rising. But that doesn’t mean it can’t get very cold in winter, or in some spots. If people can’t understand that, I doubt they understand it’s currently summer in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/25 "2011-01-13T10:58:24Z")
I only recently learned the difference between “climate” and “weather” because I got confused by the considerable crossover where those terms are used. And this is where I learned it: [Armstrong and Miller](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-F8EO3qOVk). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/26 "2011-01-13T11:00:48Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Climate is the predicted/expected yearly trend of weather for an area. Weather is what you get when you stick your head out a window right now. Or, to put it another way: climate = long term. weather = short term. Global warming is the idea that the average temperature over a significant period of time (measured in years or decades) is increasing. While it has stayed the same for a couple years, it has not gotten cooler. The weather report you get for today, even if it includes an extended forecast for a week or two, is not really relevant. It would be like saying you can’t be passing a class because you got an F on an assignment. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/27 "2011-01-13T12:14:31Z")
To put it another way, you can’t argue that because you have an experience in your city or it’s something that’s occurring across the United States that it somehow translates into a worldwide phenomenon. Which is really true about so many things. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/28 "2011-01-13T12:28:46Z")
What a very mild, well informed thread in the BBQ Pit. Well we can’t have that now, can we! I want to punch those syphilitic flaccid asshole fuckers who say “Hurrr it’s so cold! Where’s all the global warming?” in the face every time they make that stupid joke. It wasn’t funny in 1998, it’s not funny now. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/29 "2011-01-13T14:25:07Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Climate is the predicted/expected yearly trend of weather for an area. Weather is what you get when you stick your head out a window right now.\ To muddy the waters further, we’re in a La Nina year right now which is affecting how things play out - there are cycles within the weather patterns beyond current weather and long-term climate. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/30 "2011-01-13T15:05:18Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] What a nice straw men side that claims it’s proof of global warming. (No one in this thread that is a proponent has said that) The reality is that the anti global warming side is the one that needs to get their shit knock off. [/QUOTE] It’s not strawman. You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Sam was talking about folks on par with Hilarity N. Suze, and trust me, there are PLENTY of pro-AGW/GW folks out there that are just as ignorant. The fact that they are on the side that has the science behind them doesn’t magically make they 100% correct in their mouthings. Hell, watch History Channel or TLC/Discovery sometime when they have something about weather on…I’ve heard many times they tie in some large hurricane or more active weather pattern into GW/AGW…the same way Hilarity N. Suze is tying in a snowy winter to discount the theory. Now…perhaps what YOU mean is that the ‘expert’ anti-GW types who should know what they are talking about (in theory) are saying incorrect things about a link between the snows this year and a case for disproving AGW/GW. If you have a cite from one of the anti-GW experts linking the snowfall or supposed cold winter to proof that AGW is wrong then it would be interesting if you linked to it. You might have a point then (i.e that the experts on both side aren’t equivalent, and that the anti-GW/AGW ‘experts’ say stupid shit that isn’t on par with what the GW/AGW experts do)…but it would be a different point that the one Sam seemed to be making. -XT ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/31 "2011-01-13T15:14:55Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I never claimed or implied that humanity cannot cause gw. Merely that there exists reasonable doubt that humanity is the primary cause of gw. Define “reasonable”. The problem has been that the “reasonable” definition being used by many right wingers is poisoned from the start. [http://www.usatoday.com/money/books/reviews/2010-06-01-deathmerchants01\_ST\_N.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/money/books/reviews/2010-06-01-deathmerchants01_ST_N.htm) > [@](#): > > No matter how overwhelmingly the scientific community may back a research study, naysayers can always find a scientist to support the opposing view on issues ranging from tobacco smoke to global warming. > > According to science historians Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway, the same contrarian scientists keep popping up no matter the topic: Fred Seitz, Fred Singer and Bill Nierenberg, to name three. All physicists, Seitz and Nierenberg worked on the atomic bomb, while Singer, a rocket scientist, worked on observation satellites. > > Oreskes and Conway have co-authored a history of these Merchants of Doubt. Their subjects have stood against the scientific consensus on a number of issues. They gained traction because a media concerned with fairness gave them equal time. > > In 1953, a scientific study demonstrated that mice painted with cigarette tar developed fatal cancers. In December of that year, tobacco companies created the Tobacco Industry Research Committee (TIRC) to cast doubt on the link between tobacco and cancer. It worked. Between 1954 and the late 1970s, more than 100 lawsuits were filed against tobacco companies and not one plaintiff received money, the authors say. > > In 1979, tobacco giant R.J. Reynolds hired Seitz, former president of the National Academy of Sciences, as a consultant. His credibility helped TIRC counter research linking smoking with health problems. As one tobacco industry executive put it in an infamous memo, “Doubt is our product.” > > In 1993, the tobacco industry published Bad Science: A Resource Book, a handbook containing ideas for messages that could be used in sound bites to weaken scientific claims. Examples: > > •Too often science is manipulated to fulfill a political agenda. > > •Government agencies betray the public trust by violating principles of good science to achieve political goals. > > •The Environmental Protection Agency adjusts science to support preconceived public policy prescriptions. > > •Decisions based on bad science cost society heavily. > > •EPA’s tobacco reports allow political goals to guide research. > > •Proposals that target tobacco smoke are an excuse for new laws to take individual liberties. > > Writing about secondhand smoke, Singer once said, “If we do not carefully delineate the government’s role in regulating (danger) … there is essentially no limit to how much government can ultimately control our lives.” > > What Singer and Seitz did for tobacco, Nierenberg did for global warming. In 1995, the **Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change** \* (IPCC) concluded that human-caused climate change was a reality. By 2004, global warming was becoming the scientific consensus. The National Academy of Sciences commissioned a study, naming to the panel economists and scientists including Nierenberg. A committee Nierenberg chaired could not get the economists and scientists to agree, so the synthesis supported Nierenberg’s economic argument. > > The scientists had argued that a “wait-and-see” attitude was untenable, but Nierenberg discounted distant costs and ascribed the rise in temperature to the sun. Nierenberg’s message carried, even though other scientists such as Bert Bolin called Nierenberg “simply wrong.” > > Eventually, most of the scientific community stopped working with Nierenberg, according to Oreskes and Conway. And **xtisme** , lets not forget what the OP is referring to, most of the conservatives and **current republican leadership** are fond of this BS. - Say it with me **Hilarity N. Suze** : Intergovernmental Panel on **Climate Change** , from 1995 and there are many other references even from the 1930’s. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/32 "2011-01-13T15:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] And xtisme, lets not forget what the OP is referring to, most of the conservatives and current republican leadership are fond of this BS [/QUOTE] Yeah, but they aren’t experts and, are in fact idiots. Hell, I doubt they know as much as I do on this subject, and I is ignorant. And lets not forget that a lot of liberals and democrat leadership are just as fond of BS on this subject, and are probably only marginally better informed from the perspective of someone like you…they just happen to be on the side with the real science behind them. But that doesn’t make everything they say correct, and there are many who are just as eager to claim that ever freak weather event is direct proof that GW is happening…just as there are those idiots on the other side who thing that a big snow storm proves that GW is a bunch of BS. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/33 "2011-01-13T15:22:46Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > All right. Would someone like to explain the difference between weather and climate? Think of it as the difference between a rock and geology. Is it cold and wet out? That’s weather. Is it cold and wet out because you live in Seattle? That’s climate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/34 "2011-01-13T15:44:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yeah, but they aren’t experts and, are in fact idiots. Hell, I doubt they know as much as I do on this subject, and I is ignorant. And lets not forget that a lot of liberals and democrat leadership are just as fond of BS on this subject, and are probably only marginally better informed from the perspective of someone like you…they just happen to be on the side with the real science behind them. But that doesn’t make everything they say correct, and there are many who are just as eager to claim that ever freak weather event is direct proof that GW is happening…just as there are those idiots on the other side who thing that a big snow storm proves that GW is a bunch of BS. > > -XT Unfortunately the best example is Al Gore, and when even a right wing scientist says something like: > **[“Why Don’t You Bash Al Gore?”](https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/why-dont-you-bash-al-gore/)** > > Since I took the plunge and started publicly criticizing certain climate change contrarians, notably certain Utah politicians and Christopher Monckton, people on the other side of the fence have of… > [@](#): > > . Gore’s documentary, “An Inconvenient Truth”, is not that bad, frankly. > > Yes, there are a couple errors. Yes, in a few cases he focuses on “worst-case scenarios,” rather than communicating the full range of risk. But the fact is that he got the most important points right, and the problems aren’t that serious from the perspective of most scientists who have examined the movie. Tim Lambert collected reactions from a number of scientists about a list of nine alleged errors in the movie, for example. While they didn’t always agree about the status of individual “errors,” there was general agreement that the list was too long. In most cases, it was questionable whether they were really errors at all. > > In the cases where Gore presented “worst-case scenarios” instead of depicting the full range of risk, try to look at it from the perspective of the scientists involved. The vast majority of scientists are saying, “Human-induced climate change is very likely to be a very big problem, and somewhat likely to be a very, very big problem.” Are they supposed to get all worked up when a popularizer like Gore goes around saying it will be a very, very big problem? The reaction of most scientists has been exactly what it should be. ”Well, maybe he overstated his case somewhat, but he got the gist right.” > > Now, contrast this with someone like Christopher Monckton, who goes about proclaiming that climate change is a “non-problem,” and to support his case he completely misrepresents the scientific literature he cites. Whom do you think scientists are going to want to spend their time criticizing? > > And no, I didn’t vote for Gore. One can go “tut, tut, tut” with politicians that are proponents of AGW when getting it wrong; however, they are more often correct than the contrarians that not only do they get it wrong, but that are misleading in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/35 "2011-01-13T15:50:20Z")
Actually, there is visible evidence of climate change that the average person can see - sometimes quite startling proof - if you live in a place like Ontario, and are middle-aged. It is this - that the boundaries of species which can survive wintering here or have their summer ranges here are creeping north, within one person’s lifetime. One species can of course be a simple variation - but there are several. For example, I was very surprised to learn that Opossums can now live in Toronto - as a kid, they most certainly did not. And turkey vultures are now commonly seen in Temsikaming, near where we have a cottage - when I was a kid, they never were. In both cases, it used to be too cold for them. This overwinter survival has less happy effects - exotic species aren’t killed off and are becoming an ever-increasing nuisance. It just seems, to my uneducated eye, as if everything is moving north over the past few decades. Of course it could just be a fluctuation, one lifetime is too short to know. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/36 "2011-01-13T15:52:07Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > **“It’s cold, so there’s no global warming.” Do they KNOW that’s false?** The question is, “Do they CARE whether it’s true or false?” ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/37 "2011-01-13T15:56:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yeah, but they aren’t experts and, are in fact idiots. Hell, I doubt they know as much as I do on this subject, and I is ignorant. And lets not forget that a lot of liberals and democrat leadership are just as fond of BS on this subject, and are probably only marginally better informed from the perspective of someone like you…they just happen to be on the side with the real science behind them. But that doesn’t make everything they say correct, and there are many who are just as eager to claim that ever freak weather event is direct proof that GW is happening…just as there are those idiots on the other side who thing that a big snow storm proves that GW is a bunch of BS. > > -XT Certainly, but right now, in the Northern Hemisphere, it’s the righties who need throat-punched. At the end of January there’s usually a thaw, and we can go after the lefties then. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/38 "2011-01-13T16:09:45Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I never claimed or implied that humanity cannot cause gw. Merely that there exists reasonable doubt that humanity is the primary cause of gw. FACT 1: Humanity is putting large amounts of green house gasses such as CO2 into the atmosphere FACT 2: Greenhouse gasses act to trap infrared radiation which would otherwise be lost into space. FACT 3: The average world temperature has been increasing. In order for FACT 1 not to be the cause of FACT 3, you need to provided 2 things, 1) a non human caused reason for the planet to heat up, and 2) A reason why despite FACT 2, the increase in greenhouse gasses is not warming the planet. The idea of global warming is not a new one. I remember doing a school project on it back in 1984, this was before the evidence came out that it was actually happening. If Becky swithces jobs from being an exercise coach, to working at Baskin Robbins, and notices her weight increase, you can bet it’s not due to a thyroid condition. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/39 "2011-01-13T16:36:52Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > Oh, you mean like [hurricane activity](http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/12/global-hurricane-activity-has-decreased-to-the-lowest-level-in-30-years/)? > > Anyway, weather = climate is stupid, but from what I’ve seen both the believers and the deniers can’t resist sticking in an “I told you so” when extreme heat or cold happens. Yeah, I was just going to bring that hurricane stat up. I specifically remember the prediction that 2010 was going to be a monster year for hurricanes. Oh well, maybe 2011 will be. I’m not a denier, I believe that pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year probably isn’t a good idea. The incessant bleating about the inevitable doom of this planet does tend to make me tune out though, especially when it comes to predictions further than about 1 week into the future. It also gets tiresome hearing from the news drones about how every single slightly abnormal weather event points to yet another sign of global warming. Is there anything that can happen weather wise on this planet that does not point to global warming? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/40 "2011-01-13T16:56:19Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > Yeah, I was just going to bring that hurricane stat up. I specifically remember the prediction that 2010 was going to be a monster year for hurricanes. Oh well, maybe 2011 will be. Unfortunately most of the media got it wrong, particularly FOX, most scientific papers reported that it was more likely that less hurricanes would appear, but when they do they would be stronger. > [@gravitycrash](#): > > I’m not a denier, I believe that pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year probably isn’t a good idea. The incessant bleating about the inevitable doom of this planet does tend to make me tune out though, especially when it comes to predictions further than about 1 week into the future. > > It also gets tiresome hearing from the news drones about how every single slightly abnormal weather event points to yet another sign of global warming. > > Is there anything that can happen weather wise on this planet that does not point to global warming? Yes, actually all the weather, the point that you are missing is that AGW is affecting the current balance and making natural disasters worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421.md?page=3)