# "It's cold, so there's no global warming." Do they KNOW that's false? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421 "2011-01-13T03:27:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/101 "2011-01-14T19:56:13Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Everyone thought it was funny. I’m glad you pointed it out, because it hadn’t gotten enough love. I laughed out loud when I read it. Good stuff. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/102 "2011-01-14T20:46:12Z")
Here’s the thing - maybe there’s global warming and maybe there isn’t. Maybe it’s part of the normal cycle of nature through the ages, or maybe it isn’t. If global warming actually does exist and it’s man-made, maybe we can come up with a way to reverse or minimize it or maybe we can’t. And if we can, maybe the rest of the world will join in or maybe whatever we do - even if effective - won’t make any difference anyway because everyone else finds the process too expensive, politically difficult, or they just don’t give a shit and have much more immediate problems to contend with. So there’s way too many maybe’s involved for me to even begin to think about getting behind governmental action (i.e., more beaurocracy, more government control over our lives, and wasteful and restrictive interference with business) to try to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/103 "2011-01-14T21:09:20Z")
I find it very interesting that the most effective human activity which has decreased AGW forcing in the last decades is the Global Financial Crisis. That could be countered though by the political activity, mostly hot air blowing out of world capitals. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/104 "2011-01-14T22:06:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Here’s the thing - maybe there’s global warming and maybe there isn’t. Maybe it’s part of the normal cycle of nature through the ages, or maybe it isn’t. If global warming actually does exist and it’s man-made, maybe we can come up with a way to reverse or minimize it or maybe we can’t. And if we can, maybe the rest of the world will join in or maybe whatever we do - even if effective - won’t make any difference anyway because everyone else finds the process too expensive, politically difficult, or they just don’t give a shit and have much more immediate problems to contend with. Once **Starving Artist** dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn’t know he was **Starving Artist**. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable **Starving Artist**. But he didn’t know if he was **Starving Artist** who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was **Starving Artist**. Between **Starving Artist** and a butterfly there must be some distinction! **[Maybe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuangzi)**. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/105 "2011-01-15T00:51:10Z")
In general, **Starving Artist’s** philosophy is simple, arguing that to seek uncertainty is different than to recognize uncertainty. And he who leaps in despite great uncertainty lacks wisdom and may often be observed to limp back out again. ~ **Starving Artist** the 1st, 266 B.C. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/106 "2011-01-15T00:59:53Z")
**Uncertainty goes both ways** , the rightists you follow just want you to pay attention only to the low estimates. A \*\*very \*\*unwise idea. > **[A Cloudy Outlook for Low Climate Sensitivity](https://skepticalscience.com/a-cloudy-outlook-for-low-climate-sensitivity.html)** > > One of the largest uncertainties in global climate models (GCMs) is the response of clouds in a warming world.  Determining which types of cloud cover will increase or decrease, whether that will result in a net positive or negative feedback, and... ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/107 "2011-01-15T01:30:12Z")
What rightists do you suppose I follow? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/108 "2011-01-15T01:44:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What rightists do you suppose I follow? Spam from family members and information coming from like minded friends. The fact that your points are so predictable and already answered several years ago and discredited even more recently, shows that even your sources are not as original or wise as you think. Of course, I’m open to suggestions that it could be the rightists in your head, that could explain many things.. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/109 "2011-01-15T02:40:28Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The thing that scares me the most about AGW is that by the time we have absolute, incontrovertible evidence, it will be far too late. We have to make our best judgements and govern our actions without 100% certainty, because the consequences are so great. I remember that guy, **Brazil-some-number-or-another** , saying that he would believe on the cathastrophical (that ain’t a word, is it? :dubious: ) proportions of AGW if and when at least 10% of the friggin’ world population would undeniably die from it. Ten WWIIs worth of deaths seem a bit high for a threshold to start thinking about maybe doing something, but apparently YYMV. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/110 "2011-01-15T03:57:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Spam from family members and information coming from like minded friends. The fact that your points are so predictable and already answered several years ago and discredited even more recently, shows that even your sources are not as original or wise as you think. Hahahaha…you guys, you just kill me! 😃 Information, just because it favors what you want to believe, is not incontroverible proof. If I had ten bucks for every time someone around here offered proof that was nothing of the sort, yet latched onto instantly by you and the other usual suspects, I’d…well, let’s just say I’d have quite a bit more dough. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/111 "2011-01-15T04:10:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hahahaha…you guys, you just kill me! 😃 > > Information, just because it favors what you want to believe, is not incontroverible proof. If I had ten bucks for every time someone around here offered proof that was nothing of the sort, yet latched onto instantly by you and the other usual suspects, I’d…well, let’s just say I’d have quite a bit more dough. Funny thing, what you have demonstrated so far is an uncanny ability to ignore the scientific papers and citations in the links and also show to other posters what a chicken you are in dealing with what the Republican scientist had to say on the matter; so yeah, this is indeed proof that you willingly ignore evidence to continue to make a fool of yourself, but do not change SA. [It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others](http://www.ratemymotivational.com/13042-MISTAKES-It_could_be_that_the_purpose_of_your_life_is_only_to_serve_as_a_warning_to_other) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/112 "2011-01-15T06:21:11Z")
Chicken? _Chicken!_ I’m a _chicken_? 😃 Sorry, kid. I got things to do. Check back with me when you get out of class, m’kay? And what’s all this stuff about what the “Republican” scientist says? Do you really think that as long as some Republican somewhere says something I should automatically do a 180 embrace it? Good grief! Every Republican in congress could be touting global warming (or have we all switched to ‘climate change’ now?) and I’d still be skeptical for the very same reasons I outlined above. First you accuse me of being a follower of ‘rightists’ and you criticize me for that, then you suggest that I ought to be a following someone simply because he is a rightie and it’s proof that I’m a fool if I don’t. So which is it, am I a fool for following righties or am I a fool for not following righties? You can’t have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/113 "2011-01-15T07:27:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Are you stupid? No. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/114 "2011-01-15T07:32:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Chicken? _Chicken!_ I’m a _chicken_? > > 😃 > > Sorry, kid. I got things to do. Check back with me when you get out of class, m’kay? It was better than noticing that you are branding yourself as an idiot in front of others, but I was being easy. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what’s all this stuff about what the “Republican” scientist says? Do you really think that as long as some Republican somewhere says something I should automatically do a 180 embrace it? > > Good grief! > > Every Republican in congress could be touting global warming (or have we all switched to ‘climate change’ now?) and I’d still be skeptical for the very same reasons I outlined above. First you accuse me of being a follower of ‘rightists’ and you criticize me for that, then you suggest that I ought to be a following someone simply because he is a rightie and it’s proof that I’m a fool if I don’t. > > So which is it, am I a fool for following righties or am I a fool for not following righties? You can’t have it both ways. And also an expert of missing the point, you follow the experts that have the evidence, and on this issue the science supports the scientists,\*\* regardless if they are republican or democrat. \*\* The reality is that even now you are still avoiding touching or explaining away what the BYU professor said. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/115 "2011-01-15T10:08:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Here’s the thing - maybe there’s global warming and maybe there isn’t. Maybe it’s part of the normal cycle of nature through the ages, or maybe it isn’t. Solipsism, eh? Yes, maybe life is but a dream, but the rules of the dreamworld are remarkably consistent and we may as well pay attention while we are here. What you are saying is like arguing that since lightning can cause forest fires naturally, maybe the fire that sprang up on a calm, cloudless day at the exact instant and location of a downed power line was actually caused by lightning. There are natural causes of climate change. For example, variability in solar output, volcanic eruptions, and orbital variations. But they have been studied and do not account for the current global warming. On the contrary, study of natural climate change suggests that the greenhouse effect, and thus our drastic increase in production of greenhouse gases, is very powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/116 "2011-01-15T11:45:43Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > It’s cold, so there’s no global warming." Do they KNOW that’s false? Probably not, for the most part. But did you know it’s really basically true? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > I wonder who would be making such efforts to mislead the people? People who stand to gain wealth and power from it. Talking about global warming in the context of average annual temperatures “on record” is ridiculous when the subject is really planetary cycles over time measured in eons. Climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in the Earth’s rotation and orbit, as well as variations in the sun’s energy output. > **[Global Warming:A Chilling Perspective](https://geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html)** > > Earth's climate has been warming since the most recent in a series of Ice Ages ended 18,000 years ago ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/117 "2011-01-15T17:07:57Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Probably not, for the most part. But did you know it’s really basically true? Seeing that a huge super majority of scientists that are experts on the issue are telling all that there is AGW and anyone with access to the internet can verify the information you are indeed the nadir of the consensus. > [@Nadir](#): > > People who stand to gain wealth and power from it. G.S. Calendar, the scientist that began to change the past consensus of not worrying about the issue back in the 50’s (!) was ridiculed and did not benefit from the research he made. [http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm](http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm) > [@Nadir](#): > > Talking about global warming in the context of average annual temperatures “on record” is ridiculous when the subject is really planetary cycles over time measured in eons. Climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in the Earth’s rotation and orbit, as well as variations in the sun’s energy output. > > [Global Warming:A Chilling Perspective](http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html) And if you had bothered to check the information freely available you would had found already that your citation begins mentioning the discredited “all scientists predicted a coming ice age in the 70’s”, once again scientists already take the cyclical eccentricities into account, the ignorance is demonstrated when deniers resort to mislead people by ignoring that **the cyclical eccentricities of the earth are not a reason for the current global warming**. > **[What does past climate change tell us about global warming?](https://skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period-intermediate.htm)** > > Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past... > [@](#): > > The combined evidence indicates that the net feedback to radiative forcing is significantly positive. There is no credible line of evidence that yields very high or very low climate sensitivity as a best estimate. > > CO2 has caused an accumulation of heat in our climate. The radiative forcing from CO2 is known with high understanding and confirmed by empirical observations. The climate response to this heat build-up is determined by climate sensitivity. > > Ironically, when skeptics cite past climate change, they’re in fact invoking evidence for strong climate sensitivity and net positive feedback. Higher climate sensitivity means a larger climate response to CO2 forcing. Past climate change actually provides evidence that humans can affect climate now. > **[Are we heading into a new Ice Age?](https://skepticalscience.com/heading-into-new-little-ice-age-intermediate.htm)** > > The warming effect from more CO2 greatly outstrips the influence from changes in the Earth's orbit or solar activity, even if solar levels were to drop to Maunder Minimum levels. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/118 "2011-01-15T18:46:29Z")
[Are there any wealthy scientists?](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081117115224AAid8oj) Science is a terrible career choice for anyone enamored of wealth or power. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/119 "2011-01-16T01:11:58Z")
Al Gore’s sure no scientist, I’ll give you that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421/120 "2011-01-16T01:43:57Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Al Gore’s sure no scientist, I’ll give you that. :rolleyes: Indeed, unfortunately for you he is more right than wrong. > **[“Why Don’t You Bash Al Gore?”](https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/why-dont-you-bash-al-gore/)** > > Since I took the plunge and started publicly criticizing certain climate change contrarians, notably certain Utah politicians and Christopher Monckton, people on the other side of the fence have of… > [@](#): > > Since I took the plunge and started publicly criticizing certain climate change contrarians, notably certain Utah politicians and Christopher Monckton, people on the other side of the fence have often asked, “Why don’t you criticize Al Gore for all his misrepresentations?” The implication is that I, and others like me, are being intellectually dishonest by selectively criticizing only those who are pushing for doing nothing about climate change, while ignoring “alarmists” who exaggerate. > > If you really want to fathom why scientists like me typically don’t get all worked up about Al Gore, you have to understand a couple things from the outset. > > 1. Scientists expect journalists and popularizers to get a few things wrong when explaining scientific work. > [@](#): > > 1. Gore’s documentary, “An Inconvenient Truth”, is not that bad, frankly. > > Yes, there are a couple errors. Yes, in a few cases he focuses on “worst-case scenarios,” rather than communicating the full range of risk. But the fact is that he got the most important points right, and the problems aren’t that serious from the perspective of most scientists who have examined the movie. Tim Lambert collected reactions from a number of scientists about a list of nine alleged errors in the movie, for example. While they didn’t always agree about the status of individual “errors,” there was general agreement that the list was too long. In most cases, it was questionable whether they were really errors at all. > > In the cases where Gore presented “worst-case scenarios” instead of depicting the full range of risk, try to look at it from the perspective of the scientists involved. The vast majority of scientists are saying, “Human-induced climate change is very likely to be a very big problem, and somewhat likely to be a very, very big problem.” Are they supposed to get all worked up when a popularizer like Gore goes around saying it will be a very, very big problem? The reaction of most scientists has been exactly what it should be. ”Well, maybe he overstated his case somewhat, but he got the gist right.” > > Now, contrast this with someone like Christopher Monckton, who goes about proclaiming that climate change is a “non-problem,” and to support his case he completely misrepresents the scientific literature he cites. Whom do you think scientists are going to want to spend their time criticizing? > > And no, I didn’t vote for Gore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-cold-so-theres-no-global-warming-do-they-know-thats-false/567421.md?page=7)