# Its coming, isn't it. Fascism. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245 "2010-11-29T02:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/1 "2010-11-29T02:35:30Z")
“Show me your papers”, like in those old WW2 movies. Will we be required to carry identification at all times, and submit to search, including pat down, without cause? I heard a TSA official the other day say “If you don’t like it, don’t travel”. **Janet Napolitano** , head of Homeland Security isn’t shy about wanting more power. Seems to me we just might be on a slippery slope to the american version of an autocratic government. And a lot of travelers are being very accepting of the xrays and gropings. It’ll be interesting to see how far this thing goes. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/2 "2010-11-29T02:44:04Z")
We seem to be headed in that direction. And the majority of Americans are either too spineless to do anything about it or actively pushing for it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/3 "2010-11-29T02:56:15Z")
Yeah, and now we’ve got the Deptartment of Homeland Security shutting down websites over music copyright and product counterfeiting offenses. [Cite](http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/130763-homeland-security-dept-seizes-domain-names-). It looks like we’ve got a new government police force in the making. I don’t like it one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/4 "2010-11-29T02:58:29Z")
Yeah, I think we’re definitely heading in that direction. What makes this body scanner nonsense really bad is how the TSA is being particularly obnoxious and heavy-handed about it. “You don’t want a stranger groping you or looking at your naked body? Fuck you. Walk instead.” Think of what will happen in a few years, when most of the country’s major newspapers have folded, and there is essentially no oversite of the government. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/5 "2010-11-29T03:01:20Z")
Obligatory links: [man soaked in urine due to TSA](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/sawyer/). [Banker accused of embezzlement](http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/daniel_rubin/20100818_Daniel_Rubin__An_infuriating_search_at_Philadelphia_International_Airport.html). My parents emigrated to this country because it was great, full of promise, money, opportunity. Because they both came from police states. Its rapidly becoming apparent this is not the country they moved to. I think there’s a good chance I’ll have to emigrate at some point in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/6 "2010-11-29T03:09:02Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Obligatory links: [man soaked in urine due to TSA](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/sawyer/). > > [Banker accused of embezzlement](http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/daniel_rubin/20100818_Daniel_Rubin__An_infuriating_search_at_Philadelphia_International_Airport.html). [It’s not all bad.](http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/11/25/vo.bikini.tsa.check.wabc.html) ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/7 "2010-11-29T03:10:40Z")
It’s a vicious \*\*circle \*\*(man, that looks weird). Humanity will continue making the same mistakes for as long as our species survives. People who seek power can’t resist corruption, and gradually the majority comes under the complete control of just a few. No system we’ve tried so far can prevent police states/dictatorships, because the people in charge are trying to cheat every system at every turn. And the only way we’ve found to reliably rule giant human populations is from the top down, with violence and prison for those who get out of line. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/8 "2010-11-29T03:14:28Z")
It comes not just from the government, but corporations working hand in hand with the government. For example, you have [bullshit like this effort to crush small farmers](http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/seeds-how-to-criminalize-them/) so that we are all completely dependent on corporations like Monsanto for our food supply. Does anyone care? ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/9 "2010-11-29T03:20:41Z")
Why is the government going after small family farms who produce raw milk for sale? They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars regulating it, forcing buyers to go underground and buy “shares” in cows to get the product they desire. It blows my damn mind. What people choose to buy and consume is their own GD business. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/10 "2010-11-29T04:06:24Z")
My favorite step towards the abyss was the heath care shout-downs of a year or so ago. The orchestrated and deliberate attempts to shut down democratic dialogue and conversation. The associated gun-toting and related mob maneuvers that formed a noxious cloud around the so-called populist movement was nauseating. I know the OP was gesturing towards government acts (and this is not meant to detract from the scariness of them), but I find the angry abandonment of democracy’s underpinnings by large segments of the population scarier. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/11 "2010-11-29T04:29:52Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Yeah, I think we’re definitely heading in that direction. What makes this body scanner nonsense really bad is how the TSA is being particularly obnoxious and heavy-handed about it. “You don’t want a stranger groping you or looking at your naked body? Fuck you. Walk instead.” > > Think of what will happen in a few years, when most of the country’s major newspapers have folded, and there is essentially no oversite of the government. Even scarier for me is the co-opting of the internet. The immense power of individuals to communicate freely with all other individuals in the world is not a freedom we’re going to have forever, in my cynical opinion. ETA: The oversight of the press is largely gone already - they don’t do what they should be doing already. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/12 "2010-11-29T04:38:02Z")
My experience is that people who think the future will look like the past are always wrong. Fascism had its day and it’s largely gone now. But it’s true that our notions of privacy and presumptions of innocence are fitting uneasily into a digital world. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/13 "2010-11-29T04:43:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My experience is that people who think the future will look like the past are always wrong. Bah. When the New Roman Empire conquers the world and forces you to fight in the gladiatorial games you’ll learn better! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/14 "2010-11-29T04:45:18Z")
But… But… I thought we were going to have a Christian theocracy! We were supposed to have a Christian Taliban! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/15 "2010-11-29T04:53:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > But… But… I thought we were going to have a Christian theocracy! We were supposed to have a Christian Taliban! You can have both fascism and theocracy at the same time easily enough. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/16 "2010-11-29T05:10:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My experience is that people who think the future will look like the past are always wrong. Fascism had its day and it’s largely gone now. But it’s true that our notions of privacy and presumptions of innocence are fitting uneasily into a digital world. No, the fascist _governments_ of yesterday are largely gone now. There are plenty of governments right now that are effectively fascist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/17 "2010-11-29T05:20:10Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > There are plenty of governments right now that are effectively fascist. Define fascist. By the way this is usually where these discussions end - it’s much easier to call something fascist than to define what fascism actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/18 "2010-11-29T05:31:39Z")
The problem is the same people that complain about loss of liberties, no matter how valid the complaints are will be screaming just as loud if an attack happens. It’s got to be a balance. Terrorist use the freedoms we enjoy to exploit their criminal activities. Criminals do the same. They exploit freedoms to scope out victims. For instance, you enter the subway. OK common sense tells you, a train goes north, you get on it or a train goes south you get on it. Yet all the time people will sit there not getting on any train. Why are they there? If you tell them to move along, they scream about having the right to be there. And to a degree they have that right, but common sense tells you, they shouldn’t be there for hours at a time. But these people are there to scope out victims and to intimidate. But you have to take the good with the bad. It’s easy to say “I should be able to drink raw milk,” untill someone gets sick from it and sues everyone. It’s easy to say “The TSAs are too strict,” till someone blows up a plane and then everyone on this board will be screaming how incompetent people are. That nice white guy living with all those black people seemed harmless enough, and he was unless he found you attractive, and then Jeffrey Dahmer took on a more sinister face. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/19 "2010-11-29T05:36:16Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > It’s easy to say “The TSAs are too strict,” till someone blows up a plane and then everyone on this board will be screaming how incompetent people are. Your basic point is well taken but these criticisms of the TSA are not mutually exclusive. The criticism isn’t just “they’re too strict,” it’s “their searches are too invasive _and they are useless_.” So if the TSA rules stay the same and there’s another attack, the complaint is unfortunately justified. And if the rules are changed and there’s another attack, the complaints were still valid unless it turns out that these scans would have prevented it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/20 "2010-11-29T05:39:32Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > It’s easy to say “The TSAs are too strict,” till someone blows up a plane and then everyone on this board will be screaming how incompetent people are. The TSA has nothing to do with stopping terrorism and isn’t capable of doing so. They are at best empty security theater. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245.md?page=2)