# Its coming, isn't it. Fascism. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245 "2010-11-29T02:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/61 "2010-11-29T19:20:20Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > For forty years, lefties have claiming there’s a fascist dictatorship just around the corner. And yet somehow, like the Rapture and the Apocalypse, it never quite gets here. I agree that use of the word “facism” (and my earlier use of “police state”) are hyperbole; however, there’s been a distinct move towards greater concentration of power in the last few years. It’s disappointing, but not surprising, that Obama hasn’t rolled back the increase of executive powers that the Bush administration oversaw. It’s possible - I’m hopeful - that this a temporary political swing brought on by the September 11 attacks. There are certainly indicators that national culture is becoming more liberal, or at least libertarian (i.e., the spread of same-sex marriage legalization, the decriminalization of (small amounts of) marijuana in Massachusetts, and the near-legalization of it in California). Nonetheless, I will always be on the left of the majority in the country, so I can either accept that, or move somewhere else where my politics are more mainstream. At the moment, I’m liking option 2. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/62 "2010-11-29T19:21:21Z")
Facism is woefully inadequate for running a modern technological state. Feudalism is about as likely. The current “squishy totalitarianism” will remain in place. Actual old school authoritarianism could only occur after a serious backslide in average Americans’ standard of living or the country’s loss of international power. It would most likely be a bottom up revolution. I guess the military could revolt and impose a top down solution, but they’re so cowed and reined in I don’t even see how that would even play out. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/63 "2010-11-29T19:25:29Z")
> [@villa](#): > > And why? Partially because there has never been a Democrat plan to take all guns away. But also partly because the right mobilizes against gun restrictions that are proposed and fights against them. > > See tha parallel, **LP**? Meh. I never said there were no delusional right wingers. Right wing drama queens talking about gun confiscation, left wing drama queens talking about imminent fascism–what’s the dif? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/64 "2010-11-29T19:26:59Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Meh. I never said there were no delusional right wingers. Right wing drama queens talking about gun confiscation, left wing drama queens talking about imminent fascism–what’s the dif? Well, both of them actually have more than a kernel of truth to them. If the right weren’t vigilant, then gun restrictions would be much stricter. If the left weren’t vigilant, there would be greater movement down the path towards fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/65 "2010-11-29T19:31:20Z")
Just for the record, that is totally not where _I_ was going with that. ---
**Author:** ![Raskolnikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@Raskolnikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raskolnikov)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/66 "2010-11-29T19:39:15Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Sue the farmer, it’s not like you can or should sue the government for something you knowingly ingest. If the farmer wants protection, they can make customers sign waivers. > > The new TSA scanners would not have stopped the underwear bomber, yet they are in direct response to him. this is true, the type of explosive that the underwear and shoe bomber tried to use can NOT be seen by these nude machines. However, Michael Chertoff (sp?) is a higher-up of the company that makes them and went around on every media source he could find after the underwear bomber’s attempt and pleaded for them never once disclosing his relationship to the manufactuer. The amount of explosive the underwear bomber had was equal to the size of a ketchup packet you get at a fast food restaurant. That small. just follow the money in amerika and you can solve anything. and only 20% of the packages put onto the cargo hold of passanger planes are ever scanned. But let’s keep groping Grandma. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/67 "2010-11-29T19:45:40Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Right wing drama queens talking about gun confiscation, left wing drama queens talking about imminent fascism–what’s the dif? Dunno. Skirt length? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/68 "2010-11-29T20:00:24Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > I agree that use of the word “facism” (and my earlier use of “police state”) are hyperbole. You _have_ to exaggerate. If you don’t, everyone assumes you are and your message get’s unfairly weakened. Hyperbole is your friend. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/69 "2010-11-29T20:04:33Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Dunno. Skirt length? I happen to like granny dresses. ---
**Author:** ![Namaste\_Che](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Namaste\_Che](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namaste_Che)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/70 "2010-11-29T20:04:37Z")
The thing about rapid change like The Third Reich is that it tends to very quickly polarize the citizens, hence many defectors, saboteurs and Allied sympathizers. People willing to die fighting against an evil political system. I’m not from USA. But as I see it the change toward similar systems is a gradual one in USA and it’s cushioned nicely with relatively cheap food & luxuries(like air travel) to keep US citizens happy enough to just go along, for now. I believe it’s only time to start worrying in USA if they try to touch your gun laws like they did in Australia 15 years ago basically disarming the entire population making the IMO INEVITABLE revolutions of 10-30 years from now extremely difficult here. Terrorist attacks especially those resulting in deaths are unfortunate and IMO not the right way to go about political change however, they appear to catalyze the move in the west towards new oppressive laws that will eventually result in revolt. Essentially playing in to the hands of the terrorists, though as I see it with the equality divide ever increasing globally & locally this is inevitable anyway. One last thing, I don’t agree that the media are or ever have been “government watchdogs”, media companies like most capitalist ventures are driven by profits which is to say greed this is almost always incompatible with unbiased truth. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/71 "2010-11-29T20:17:58Z")
Oh, look: November 2010. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/72 "2010-11-29T20:27:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, look: November 2010. Hey, that’s one of the better Nov 2010 debuts we’ve had! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Namaste\_Che](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Namaste\_Che](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namaste_Che)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/73 "2010-11-29T20:30:28Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I can’t comment on Canada or Japan, but I think with Britain you might be suffering a little from “the grass is always greener” syndrome. Yes there are things in the US you won’t see in the UK - the stifling dominance of religion, for example. But there are things on the personal freedom side that are significantly more authoritarian in the UK - police powers that the LAPD would kill (probably literally) for, for example. Last time I went to visit friends/family, I was amazed at the prevalence of CCTV surveillance. Ummm you are correct the LAPD would and more to the point COULD kill for.. whatever because they carry GUNS! Lots and lots of guns and ammo and from the little I know they aren’t afraid to use them. Brit cops on the other hand carry truncheons! Yeah basically a stick, that’s a weapon that was invented before Jesus, even before fire was invented I’m pretty sure. Though I do agree CCTV cameras do concern me, but mainly because (despite that I’m an ordinary looking male) I always imagine there’s some crazed madman staring intently in to a monitor masturbating to my stride. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/74 "2010-11-29T20:35:25Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Meh. I never said there were no delusional right wingers. Right wing drama queens talking about gun confiscation, left wing drama queens talking about imminent fascism–what’s the dif? Going by the Tea Party rallies, the difference is that RW drama queens have no fashion sense. I mean, even the Earth Firsters wear their tie-dye with a bit of panache! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/75 "2010-11-29T20:40:16Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > That’s not even funny in jest. > > -XT What, you don’t want to watch “Ow, My Balls!”? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/76 "2010-11-29T20:42:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Going by the Tea Party rallies, the difference is that RW drama queens have no fashion sense. I mean, even the Earth Firsters wear their tie-dye with a bit of panache! Well, yeah, I can hardly deny that. But the tea partiers really know how to throw a tailgate party! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/77 "2010-11-29T21:04:30Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] What, you don’t want to watch “Ow, My Balls!”? [/QUOTE] I was obliged to watch several episodes of Sara Palin’s Alaska this weekend. I’d rather have a root canal using lemon juice as a pain killer administered by a demented masochistic dwarf using a blunt spoon as an instrument… _shudder_ That’s several hours of my life I’ll NEVER get back! -XT ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/78 "2010-11-29T21:12:09Z")
> [@Namaste\_Che](#): > > Ummm you are correct the LAPD would and more to the point COULD kill for.. whatever because they carry GUNS! Lots and lots of guns and ammo and from the little I know they aren’t afraid to use them. > Brit cops on the other hand carry truncheons! Yeah basically a stick, that’s a weapon that was invented before Jesus, even before fire was invented I’m pretty sure. > > Though I do agree CCTV cameras do concern me, but mainly because (despite that I’m an ordinary looking male) I always imagine there’s some crazed madman staring intently in to a monitor masturbating to my stride. The guns really aren’t the issue. UK police have access to guns, and, to be honest, it isn’t the shooting type situations that I am particularly concerned about in this post (though improper shootings also happen in the UK). Thatcher politicized the UK police and used it as a riot control force against unions and the left generally. Multiple times I saw with my own eyes the police instigate violence against Thatcher’s political enemies (and deal with any journalists stupid enough to get caught witnessing it). That’s a different type of police corruption and misconduct than you see over in the US, and it the extent to which the rozzers went hand in hand with Thatcher in particular was more than a little scary. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/79 "2010-11-29T23:21:24Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > It comes not just from the government, but corporations working hand in hand with the government. For example, you have [bullshit like this effort to crush small farmers](http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/seeds-how-to-criminalize-them/) so that we are all completely dependent on corporations like Monsanto for our food supply. Does anyone care? Aside from being Leftist propaganda that distorts the objective facts, this has fuck all to do with the OP subject. Enforcement of IP rights (however stupid and self-defeating) isn’t fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245/80 "2010-11-29T23:50:50Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Aside from being Leftist propaganda that distorts the objective facts, this has fuck all to do with the OP subject. Enforcement of IP rights (however stupid and self-defeating) isn’t fascism. Perhaps better in a different thread, but I am not seeing the Leftist propaganda in the link being about enforcement of IP rights, it struck me as the government creating laws that pretty much mandate the use of a corporate product under the guise of safety. This is, at least to my mind, germane in a discussion on emerging fascism and something that seems to be happening more and more of late. As much as I dislike the Tea Party (being, IMHO, just the populist arm of the fundamentalist right wing Republican Party), they do have a point on a bunch of issues, increased government regulation being one of them. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will get relief from this trend from either party in any incarnation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-coming-isnt-it-fascism/562245.md?page=5)