# It's evolution or it's Jesus, Janet. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225 "2001-02-28T16:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/101 "2001-03-01T16:53:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Protesilaus \* > \*\* > Probably. If she had received a competent education, she wouldn’t have folded like that at the end. \*\* But, her professor LIED to her! I told her he wouldn’t willingly betray the rebellion… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/102 "2001-03-01T16:55:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by inor \* > **::inor, SLAPPING jr8::** You think **that’s** bad – the current thread title has set off a tune in my head that’s lasted ALL AFTERNOON. So the only thing left to do is to share it [sub]heh heh heh[/sub]: \*Just remember the God who began it (Janet), How he sent down those tablets of granite (Janet), And the Calf made of gold, He did ban it (Janet), So dammit – Janet – God loves you. He sent down His Son to this planet (Janet) Saying no gulf’s so large God can’t span it (Janet) And Word was good, but we did pan it (Janet), But dammit – Janet – God loves youuuuu…\* Ah… I feel much better now. Have a nice day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![inor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f475e1/32.png) [@inor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inor)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/103 "2001-03-01T17:06:43Z")
:_slappin_ jr8’s ankles from his helpless position on the floor: ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/104 "2001-03-01T17:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by redtail23 \* > \*\*RE: space for animals > > In figuring _average_ space per animal, you’re failing to calculate space _needed_ per animal. I’ve forgotten all statistics & math terminology, so work with me here. > > Some of those animals were **vewy, vewy small**. I mean, since God chose to save fleas, ticks, roaches, mosquitos, tapeworms, silverfish, so on and et cetera, some very large percentage of those 50,000 (?right?) didn’t need much space. All the parasites, for instance, must have traveled on or in the other animals, thereby giving up their .75m for the greater good. > > Of course that leaves us with another question: > > If evolution doesn’t occur, and Noah only had 50,000 animals / 2 animals per species = 25,000 species > > … > > Where did all the rest of them come from?? > > 😃 > \*\* I believe the usual fundy stance is that stuff like fish n insects just survived on the debris and in the salty/fresh water of the flood. That leaves Noah to focus on larger animals. I thought about the size problem, but given that they are saving baby Brontosaurs n whatnot, there are some animals around that are going to be a whole lot larger than their .75 meters of food n space. And as for the reason to trim the earth down to 25,000 species (actually less - let’s not forget the seven of each clean animal), the shocker for all people trying to grasp creation science, is that creationists do accept speciation! They break the animals of the planet down into crude families. All mice, all sparrows, that sorta thing. Although apparently, although things like evolving long legs on the kangaroo mouse can occur, somewhere God has drawn a “thus far and no further” line in how far they can evolve. ---
**Author:** ![Lauralee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Lauralee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lauralee)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/105 "2001-03-01T17:14:42Z")
While y’all are having fun figuring out the animals vs. space problems, remember that it was 2 of each unclean animal, **7** of each clean animal. Sorry, I don’t know which ones had their baths before the flood… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/106 "2001-03-01T17:17:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by redtail23 \* > \*\*Where did all the rest of them come from?? > > :D\*\* Apparently all ants (for instance) were represented by just two of 'em. These folks believe in micro-evolution whereby you can get, say wasps and bumblebees from a common ancestor, but you can’t get, say, amphibians from fish. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Palandine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/958977/32.png) [@Palandine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palandine)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/107 "2001-03-01T17:51:20Z")
I listen to a fundamentalist Protestant morning radio show for grins and annoyances (I’m Catholic, so to them I’m just as damned as the rest of you heathen 😉 ). They have Hovind and an Australian named Ken Ham (sp?) on a great deal. Hovind explained away the space/food/poop problem by saying that most of the dinosaurs, reptiles, birds, and the like were actually eggs (no one asked how the eggs walked to Palestine). The hosts also debated with a nun who’s a teacher in a Catholic school who of course accepts the theory of evolution. She noted the difficulty they seemed to have in seeing the forest for the trees–that is, she notes that the important thing about Genesis is that in the beginning God created a covenant with his people. In all their contortions of trying to get the Bible to be a science text, it’s funny how they never mention that most important truth of Genesis. Of course, they accused her of not being a real Christian, either. “The Bible tells us how to go to Heaven, not how the Heavens go.”–Edwin Hubble ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/108 "2001-03-01T18:07:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Palandine \* > **Hovind explained away the space/food/poop problem by saying that most of the dinosaurs, reptiles, birds, and the like were actually eggs (no one asked how the eggs walked to Palestine).** Obviously they were carried there by African swallows. 😃 Maybe some of the animals stayed on deck or on the roof. Maybe they kept the livestock in a big dinghy. Maybe God shrank the animals and made them bigger afterwards, or Noah had a TARDIS, or they were all kept in suspended animation. Oh, like any of those are any more implausible than Hovind’s explanation… [sub]“Animals with long ears along the sides; short ears --middle of the boat” - Eddie Izzard “These cows…are _very small_. The ones outside…are _far away_…” - Father Ted[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Palandine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/958977/32.png) [@Palandine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palandine)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/109 "2001-03-01T18:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > > **or they were all kept in suspended animation.** ummm, actually… Hovind sez that animals like lions and tigers did sleep most of the time so they wouldn’t eat the gentle forest creatures… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/110 "2001-03-01T19:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > **_originally posted by Kyberneticist_ > I believe the usual fundy stance is that stuff like fish n insects just survived on the debris and in the salty/fresh water of the flood.** No, no, no, not allowed. According to dear Jack, “And every living substance was destroyed…” (Gen 7:23) My coworker mentioned the big cats earlier. Since they require meat to live, they would normally have to eat the other animals to survive. In which case, God must have temporarily changed them somehow to avoid that problem (like the hibernation mentioned previously). So I guess God could have solved the whole food/poop problem by simpling deciding that none of the animals would need to eat for the duration of the trip. After all, he’s God, right? 'Course the next question is, if God’s gonna do all that, then why didn’t he just pick the animals and say “You, there, you two: you won’t drown, you’ll just sleep through it” instead of messing with the whole boat thing? **jr8** - you’re evil, EEE-VIILLLLLL, I tell you! AND you owe me two keyboards! ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/111 "2001-03-01T20:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > **the instant conversion of the heathen simply because someone was willing to read some Bible passages to them.** I’ve met people who act like this! I tell them I’m an atheist and they say, “Well, you must never have heard of the Gospel of Jesus.” It’s incomprehensible to them that someone could have heard or read the Gospels and not believe them! No, it MUST be because I’ve somehow managed to reach the age of 43 without ever having heard of Jesus at all! Their reaction is as fine an example of [cognitive dissonance](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/9/0,5716,25059+1+24662,00.html) as you’d ever hope (?) to meet. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/112 "2001-03-01T20:58:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Azazel \* > _ **Bangs head against wall** _ Your head or Chick’s? ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/113 "2001-03-01T20:59:58Z")
I praise **jr8** for one of the best posts EVER!! Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/114 "2001-03-01T21:47:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vix \* > **"Traveling overseas? Don’t forget to take foreign language Chick tracts with you."** If your travel plans include Syria, Indonesia, Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan, I heartily recommend [“Allah Had No Son.”](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp) (Depending on the country, a one-way ticket may be quite enough.) ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/115 "2001-03-01T22:00:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by inor \* > **Didn’t the kid say something about the surrounding matrix of the fossils being 212M yrs old? (The argument he uses to refute the prof’s assertion of the age of the fossils). I’d bet somewhere in his ludditerature he makes a claim for a much younger earth…** Well, this is Chick’s clumsy way of disputing both radio-metric and radio-carbon dating. YECs doubt both methods of dating fossils and rocks. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/116 "2001-03-01T22:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*What’s white and slimy and falls from the sky? > > The Coming of the Lord \*\* Oh, you WILL go to Hell for that one! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/117 "2001-03-01T22:37:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rocket88 \* > **In my whole miserable godless life I think I’ve only ever seen one Chick Tract “in the wild”, so to speak.** In my travels, I usually find them in the South, like my native Texas and Florida. I hear Georgia is another good place for Chick Tract spotters. Approach them carefully, but remember, their bark is worse than their bite. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/118 "2001-03-01T22:43:25Z")
What happens if Noah picked homosexual animals? Maybe that’s what happened to the dinosaurs. Perhaps the animals could have repented and become straight, but to whom? How do you pray to a figure that won’t be born for another 2,500 years? Then of course we get into the whole animal inbreeding issue. I mean, if there’s only two of them, how did their children reproduce? I’m just amazed we don’t have more hemophiliac bucktoothed tigers that wander head first into trees on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/119 "2001-03-01T22:51:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyberneticist \* > **The hot-house effect is particularly amusing since you’d think that if they really believed that, they’d try duplicating the hothouse effect at home to live for 900 years.** I’m not gonna swear to it, but I think I’ve heard that someone really does intend to live this way, at least temporarily, as an experiment. If I can confirm this, I’ll post it somewhere. BTW, there’s a woolly mammoth in the parade of animals heading for the Ark. A woolly mammoth in a tropical climate? **I don’t think so!!!** ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225/120 "2001-03-01T23:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > **Verse 13 ends"…and behold, the face of the ground was dried"- ie, first the SURFACE of the ground was dried up, then the deeper portions.** Okay, that does make sense, but it’s hardly evidence that the Flood really happened. The Jack T. Chick Parody Archive has the anti-tract “Dead to Rights,” wherein Chick gets hit by a car and goes to Heaven. Terrified he’s going to go to Hell, Chick says, “…I’m forgiven! You died on the cross for the world’s sins! I believe in You! Jesus Saves!” To which God replies, “That’s absurd! Why would I need to sacrifice Myself to Myself to allow Me to change a rule I made Myself!?!” It’s the best argument against Jesus’ supposed sacrifice I’ve ever read. (That and the fact that Jesus should have had no doubt He was going to Heaven anyway. Any suffering He experienced on Earth or His three days in Hell would have been minimal in comparison.) It shows just how illogical the concept really is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-evolution-or-its-jesus-janet/56225.md?page=7)