# It's fun to shoot people. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259 "2005-02-03T21:43:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![doomraisin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@doomraisin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doomraisin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/41 "2005-02-04T17:33:16Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > 1. That IF he does get killed (Hopefully not) that the guy who does it, has as much fun doign it as the Lt. General is having too. I’m sure the general wouldn’t have it any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/42 "2005-02-04T17:34:52Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > I just hope 2 things: > > 1. That IF he does get killed (Hopefully not) that the guy who does it, has as much fun doign it as the Lt. General is having too. Probably not. Shooting women in the back of the head is really more of the Taliban’s thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/43 "2005-02-04T17:40:09Z")
At least he’s in an appropriate career path. In the civilian world, he’d be a serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/44 "2005-02-04T17:46:08Z")
> [@Bitterness Comes Standard](#): > > This is why the media does NOT belong in the war zone. They only show parts of what’s going on and not the whole story. What need is it for him to have been interviewed in the first place. Did you even bother to read the article? The comments were made in **San Diego**. The general was in a panel discussion, not an off-the-cuff remark on the battlefield. If you’re going to contribute, at least know what we’re talking about. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > I just hope 2 things: > > 1. That nothing ever happens to the Lt. General, as he is a soldier fighting for the U.S. No matter my feelings about the war, I hope he makes it to his family ok. > > 2. That IF he does get killed (Hopefully not) that the guy who does it, has as much fun doign it as the Lt. General is having too. **Aldebaran**? Is that you? If not, the impersonation is uncanny. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/45 "2005-02-04T17:50:24Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > is this the standard we should expect from the USMC? Yes. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/46 "2005-02-04T17:59:24Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Heh. The comments inspire a bit of “yikes, was the filter in your head malfunctioning that day, General?” in me, but not sickness or shock. Actually, if you want really offensive, an instructor of mine once told us of a short but pointed speech made by a retiring senior NCO: > > “When I joined the army, sucking cocks was forbidden. Now it’s allowed. I’m leaving before it’s mandatory.” > > My instructor thought this was hilarious, but apparantly was one of the few who’d admit it. Nitpick: It’s still illegal. “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” didn’t change Article 125 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. To wit: Cocksucking, muff-diving, and anal are still illegal throughout the military. Even if you’re doing it with your spouse. That having been said: That was pretty damn funny. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/47 "2005-02-04T18:02:24Z")
**kidc:** _If only he were talking about Iraqis._ Yes, I know he wasn’t talking about Iraqis. I was illustrating the sort of propaganda gold that terrorists in Iraq could make out of his foolish statements. I repeat, I am not criticizing the Lt. Gen. for feeling the way he does about killing enemy combatants, or whatever subset of them he finds it particularly fun to kill. I wouldn’t really want to have a chat with him about his love for his work, but that’s fine. What I **am** criticizing him for is being idiot enough—as a high-ranking officer serving in an occupied country, no less!—to make such a shocking-sounding remark in a public forum where it will attract, as we see, all fucking **kinds** of negative publicity. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/48 "2005-02-04T18:02:29Z")
I was at that conference, although not at that particular panel discussion. The discussion in question was titled “What are the Real Lessons of Iraqi Freedom Parts I, II, III?” I won’t comment on the context for the remarks, since I didn’t hear them. It certainly didn’t reflect the tone of any of the discussions I did hear. The conference was mainly concerned with military communication and other technology, BTW, so most of the people present were military or defense contractors. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/49 "2005-02-04T18:21:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Aldebaran**? Is that you? If not, the impersonation is uncanny. Heh. I thought the same thing to myself after re-reading 🙂 He WAS fond of irony. Though I like **Doomrasins’s** response better: > [@](#): > > I’m sure the general wouldn’t have it any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/50 "2005-02-04T18:29:35Z")
> [@Bitterness Comes Standard](#): > > This is why the media does NOT belong in the war zone. They only show parts of what’s going on and not the whole story. Guess it’s too late to tell Matthew Brady. Add my voice to those calling it “unprofessional.” Sure, there’s such a thing as gallows humor. Maybe the General actually does like shooting at people. But if an EMT was interviewed after a fatal car crash, and said something like, “Yeah, it’s kind of fun scraping dead bodies off the pavement…we play ‘identify the body part’…”–what would you think? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/51 "2005-02-04T18:44:50Z")
Oh, hell, that wasn’t indiscreet. Smedley Butler, no _there’s_ indiscreet… > [@](#): > > …It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country’s most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. > > I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. > > I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested… _Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/52 "2005-02-04T18:52:33Z")
Shooting people is fun. I do it almost every weekend. _With paintballs_. I got out of the service in January 1992. Clinton had just assumed office and the currant topic of the moment was gays in military. ( disclaimer; I could care less either way about who is doing what with who.) I just entered college and I don’t remember how the conversation in class started but that came up. Fairness and equality and women in combat and all sorts of things were being talked about in a class of innocent wide eyed 18 year old teenagers and me. I stopped the conversation cold when I asked what the core job of the military is for? It’s not a social experiment, it’s for killing people. Yeah there is disipline and rules of conduct so things like Abu Ghrab shouldn’t happen but I think the General is spot on. Here’s another thought. Near the end of his career he could be saying whatever is on his mind. The cranky old man syndrome. Who the hell cares anymore? I’m about to retire and will say whatever I want. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/53 "2005-02-04T18:55:40Z")
While I think that the general could have been a little more circumspect, let’s be clear here. He was not talking about shooting “all Iraqis” or “all insurgents.” > [@](#): > > “You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn’t wear a veil,” Mattis continued. “You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.” He’s talking about shooting abusive men. Where’s NOW when you need them? ---
**Author:** ![Bitterness\_Comes\_Standard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b19c9b/32.png) [@Bitterness\_Comes\_Standard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bitterness_Comes_Standard)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/54 "2005-02-04T19:47:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Did you even bother to read the article? The comments were made in **San Diego**. The general was in a panel discussion, not an off-the-cuff remark on the battlefield. If you’re going to contribute, at least know what we’re talking about. Yes I did read the article. I would kindly ask you not to assume what I have or have not done. Have you ever served in the military? If not, then you wouldn’t understand where my comments were coming from. To clarify since I meshed the two sentences together. I don’t care where he was interviewed, that wasn’t the point. It was suppose to be a broad statement that obviously didn’t come out that way. Photographers can be fine, in fact it’s a military MOS, but full film crews on missions can be dangerous for soldiers. If Lt.Gen. Mattis was a public relations officer fine, but he isn’t and shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Soldiers are not celebrities to be interviewed, panel or otherwise. Nor do they need to be filmed while carrying out missions. > [@Duke](#): > > Guess it’s too late to tell Matthew Brady. > > Add my voice to those calling it “unprofessional.” Sure, there’s such a thing as gallows humor. Maybe the General actually does like shooting at people. But if an EMT was interviewed after a fatal car crash, and said something like, “Yeah, it’s kind of fun scraping dead bodies off the pavement…we play ‘identify the body part’…”–what would you think? And to clarify about Matthew Brady, he took pictures; he didn’t interview soldiers or have panel discussions and blast it on news for people to judge whether the comment was appropriate, or rather during his time the newspaper. Your right I’ve never heard an EMT play “identify the body parts” and would find that disturbing. However EMT is a poor analogy. EMT’s job is to help save peoples lives. A general who leads troops into battle ends lives. You need to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Bitterness\_Comes\_Standard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b19c9b/32.png) [@Bitterness\_Comes\_Standard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bitterness_Comes_Standard)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/55 "2005-02-04T20:12:56Z")
Understand is comment might have been a joke. If it was said in front of an all military audience this would have never been an issue. Here is a comment he made. [http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1366502003](http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1366502003) Maj Gen Mattis added: “If they choose to fight they are going to regret it, but we also believe that part of the physicians’ oath that says first do no harm. If to kill a terrorist we have got to kill eight innocent people you don’t kill them.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/56 "2005-02-04T20:15:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **kidc:** _If only he were talking about Iraqis._ > > Yes, I know he wasn’t talking about Iraqis. I was illustrating the sort of propaganda gold that terrorists in Iraq could make out of his foolish statements. But if someone is going to lie about what he said, it doesn’t particularly matter what he said. He wasn’t talking about Iraqis, he was talking about the Taliban. To state that he was talking about Iraq is a simple lie - not an “actual quote” at all. If he says, “I always did everything I could to be sure I was shooting only the bad guys”, and the terrorists and their sympathizers report it as “I want to kill Muslims”, then it doesn’t matter whether he says perfectly reasonable things - or says nothing at all. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/57 "2005-02-04T23:44:16Z")
> [@Tentacle Monster](#): > > Nitpick: It’s still illegal. “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” didn’t change Article 125 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. To wit: Cocksucking, muff-diving, and anal are still illegal throughout the military. Even if you’re doing it with your spouse. > > That having been said: That was pretty damn funny. I should point out that everyone in the story (myself included) is a current or former member of the _Canadian_ Forces, and thus we view the UCMJ with polite smiles and condescending nods, as Canadians are wont to do. ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/58 "2005-02-04T23:47:46Z")
Canada has a military? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/59 "2005-02-04T23:53:59Z")
> [@Tentacle Monster](#): > > Canada has a military? Yes, and we were in Vietnam. Ann Coulter said so. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259/60 "2005-02-05T00:02:40Z")
> [@Mr. Goob](#): > > Fairness and equality and women in combat There used to be a sort of running joke that there would never be women in combat, because they might be even more ruthless than the men. (ducking and hiding) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-fun-to-shoot-people/288259.md?page=4)