# It's "Gandhi," not "Ghandi." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757 "2004-12-27T08:49:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/1 "2004-12-27T08:49:03Z")
SERIOUSLY, people. You sound like idiots. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/2 "2004-12-27T08:51:50Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > SERIOUSLY, people. You sound like idiots. Actually, to be picky, they’d type like idiots. 😃 But, I was under the impression that his name is in hindi and thus transliterated. So the spelling would be arbitrary to a degree. No? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/3 "2004-12-27T08:58:41Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Actually, to be picky, they’d type like idiots. 😃 > But, I was under the impression that his name is in hindi and thus transliterated. So the spelling would be arbitrary to a degree. > No? Except that Gandhi himself was fluent in English, so I suppose he knew how to spell it. (Who am I to post in this thread, anyway? I _always_ misspell the name) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/4 "2004-12-27T09:03:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Except that Gandhi himself was fluent in English, so I suppose he knew how to spell it. My point though is that if it’s a transliteration, there **is no** ‘correct’ spelling. A transliteration is an attempt to aproximate the phonetics of another alphabet with one’s own. As such, he could’ve had a prefered way of transliterating his name, but it wouldn’t be any more accurate than any other similar aproximations. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/5 "2004-12-27T09:10:07Z")
[Here’s](http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/thumbnails/43152.jpg) a signature from Indira Gandhi, whose husband was adopted by the most famous member of the family (Mohandas K., of course). I _hope_ that she, of all people, would know how to spell it. And yes, she and her father-in-law were fluent in English, so there’s no hanky-panky with transliteration. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/6 "2004-12-27T09:13:06Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.historyforsale.com/productimages/thumbnails/43152.jpg) a signature from Indira Gandhi, whose husband was adopted by the most famous member of the family (Mohandas K., of course). I _hope_ that she, of all people, would know how to spell it. And yes, she and her father-in-law were fluent in English, so there’s no hanky-panky with transliteration. You appear to be ignorant of how a transliteration works I’m afraid. There is no ‘one correct transliteration’ as they are **all** aproximations. So you can make a case that was the spelling prefered by the family, but your argument falls apart when you attempt to suggest that it is the ‘correct’ spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/7 "2004-12-27T09:20:00Z")
But if _Gandhi_ spelled it “Gandhi”, in English, with his own hand, then it’s not a debateable transliteration - it’s the proper spelling. Conversly, if Gandhi had chosed to spell his name “FitzWallace”, then _that_ would be the correct way to spell it, and to hell with what you think. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/8 "2004-12-27T09:23:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But if _Gandhi_ spelled it “Gandhi”, in English, with his own hand, then it’s not a debateable transliteration - it’s the proper spelling. Conversly, if Gandhi had chosed to spell his name “FitzWallace”, then _that_ would be the correct way to spell it, and to hell with what you think. No. Just because someone chooses one possible transliteratoin for their name does not make it the ‘correct’ one, simply the one they used. If you want to make a case that’s how the family spelled it, sure. But if you want to claim that because that’s how the family spelled it that it’s ‘correct’, then no. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/9 "2004-12-27T09:29:17Z")
Preferred by the family, yeah. That’s, like, how names work. In the 1940s, my (German) great-uncle changed his name from “Brinkmann” (two "n"s) to “Brinkman” (one “n”) to dodge some of the anti-German sentiment in the US. “Brinkman” is the _correct_ spelling for his name, and for all of my cousins’. Because it’s preferred by the people using it, and therefore right. It’s different for people like Laotzi/Lao Tzu/Laotsu/Lao Tse, where there’s no way of knowing what the preferred English transliteration is. But in this case – and make no mistake, I’m referring specifically to Mohandas K. Gandhi and his line – there’s no question. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/10 "2004-12-27T09:32:06Z")
(damn, should have previewed) There’s no “correct” transliteration for the name as it’s used all over India, but in the specific case of Mohandas K. Gandhi and the people who took their name from him, yes, there is a right way and a wrong way to spell it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/11 "2004-12-27T09:36:30Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Preferred by the family, yeah. That’s, like, how names work. Yes, one chooses one’s name in one’s own language. But one does **not** get to choose how the phonetics of one’s chosen name are transliterated. > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > In the 1940s, my (German) great-uncle changed his name from “Brinkmann” (two "n"s) to “Brinkman” (one “n”) You will notice, German uses the same alphabet as English. Thus, no transliteration occured, he simply changed the spelling of his name. > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > “Brinkman” is the _correct_ spelling for his name, and for all of my cousins’. Because it’s preferred by the people using it, and therefore right. … It is the correct spelling because that’s how they spell their name. But, for instance, if they prefered a certain phonetic configuration in, say, Chinese, that wouldn’t make it right, just prefered. > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > It’s different for people like Laotzi/Lao Tzu/Laotsu/Lao Tse, where there’s no way of knowing what the preferred English transliteration is. But in this case – and make no mistake, I’m referring specifically to Mohandas K. Gandhi and his line – there’s no question. Why is there no question? One doesn’t gain some Absolute Power Of Phonetics because they decide to transliterate their name a certain way. You understand it’s an aproximation, yes? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/12 "2004-12-27T09:37:58Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > (damn, should have previewed) > > There’s no “correct” transliteration for the name as it’s used all over India, but in the specific case of Mohandas K. Gandhi and the people who took their name from him, yes, there is a right way and a wrong way to spell it. No. There is a correct way to spell it, **in Hindi**. There are several **approximations** in **English**. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/13 "2004-12-27T09:38:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Just because someone chooses one possible transliteratoin for their name does not make it the ‘correct’ one, simply the one they used. > If you want to make a case that’s how the family spelled it, sure. > But if you want to claim that because that’s how the family spelled it that it’s ‘correct’, then no. I think you’re being overly picky and casting your aspertions too wide. Though the OP doesn’t specifically state it, I am guessing it means the specific individuals Mohandas K. Gandhi, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi, et al. For these individuals, this spelling is indeed totally correct, and variance from it (outside the context of a different form of transliteration) is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/14 "2004-12-27T09:43:01Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I think you’re being overly picky and casting your aspertions too wide. [Hunh?](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aspersion) > [@jjimm](#): > > Though the OP doesn’t specifically state it, I am guessing it means the specific individuals Mohandas K. Gandhi, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi, et al. I assumed the same. > [@jjimm](#): > > For these individuals, this spelling is indeed totally correct, and variance from it (outside the context of a different form of transliteration) is incorrect. No, it isn’t. What part of “transliterations are phonetic approximations” is giving people so much trouble? Approximations which by their very nature cannot be absolute do not, via magick, become absulute because someone wants them to be. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/15 "2004-12-27T09:44:47Z")
Well, I am closely related to a family with the last name “Legere”. It’s pronounced “Lahzsheer”, French, you see. Well, for some reason, my aunt decided to start spelling it “Leger”. That’s NOT the correct spelling. They still pronounce it “Legere”. All of her personal documents, official stuff, like driver’s licence, etc, are all spelled “Leger”. Does that make it correct? Hell no. And also, all of her children have the name “Leger”. Is that the correct spelling of their true name? Hell no. I’m with **FinnAgain** , only because my personal experience has shown me that it really doesn’t matter how it’s spelled - anyone can change it at any time. The family may prefer to spell something a certain way, but that doesn’t make it “correct” - _or_ “wrong”, either. Particularly in Gandhi’s case (though I spell it the way the family does, just because I respect that), where you’re transliterating. Maybe I’m just too laid back about the whole thing. People misspell my first name all the time, but I don’t go wiggy on them. If my name was written in Japanese (not necessarily in kanji) - I’d end up with something along the lines of “anasutasia”. Would I care terribly? No. Maybe Gandhi would throw a fit, though, who knows? 😃 Reading back over this post, I think I was rambling and scatterbrained. I was trying to somehow agree with **FinnAgain**. My humblest apologies for my meandering scribbles today, I haven’t taken my meds… ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/16 "2004-12-27T09:54:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What part of “transliterations are phonetic approximations” is giving people so much trouble? > Approximations which by their very nature cannot be absolute do not, via magick, become absulute because someone wants them to be. Transliterations are phonetic approximations, yes, in the general sense. When you have someone utterly and consistently using one spelling, that spelling is absolute _for them_. No one is saying that it’s the absolute spelling for anyone else, because no shit. (BTW, **Anastasaeon** , I disagree about the “Leger” point. The way you want your name to be spelled is the correct way.) (And it’s “absolute,” and “magick” is a dumb way to spell it.) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/17 "2004-12-27T09:54:36Z")
Some tangential-background, albeit in a PDF. ["Transliteration is the process of formulating a representation of words in one language using the alphabet of another language. For example, words written in Arabic, Cyrillic, or Chinese can be rewritten using the Roman alphabet (a transliteration process known as romanization). The transliteration process depends on the target language (e.g., English, French, Spanish) and on the education and experience of the actual transliterator. Thus, a single foreign word can have many different transliterations. Further variations may occur in the transliteration of proper names, since the owners of those names may take certain liberties with both the pronunciation and spelling of their names, for either aesthetic or devious reasons. "](http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/rd/382/arbabi.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/18 "2004-12-27T09:55:37Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes, one chooses one’s name in one’s own language. > But one does **not** get to choose how the phonetics of one’s chosen name are transliterated. But English _was_ Gandhi’s language. He spoke and wrote in English. Do you have something against bilingual people? Do they have less rights? Is someone who learned a language as an adult inferior in some way to someone who speaks it from childhood? Because that’s what you seem to be saying. What about my name? Can you spell it however you want? After all, my name is originally in Hebrew. Do I have no say in how to write it in English? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/19 "2004-12-27T10:00:37Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Transliterations are phonetic approximations, yes, in the general sense. No, in the technical sense. In the factual sense. In the realistic sense. In the rational sense. In the actual sense. Etc… > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > When you have someone utterly and consistently using one spelling, that spelling is absolute _for them_. No one is saying that it’s the absolute spelling for anyone else, because no shit. Funny, and here I thought your OP was taking people to task for using the ‘wrong’ spelling. How can there be a ‘wrong’ spelling if there is no absolute for other people? > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > (And it’s “absolute,” > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Approximations which by their very nature cannot be **absolute** … Ya don’t say? > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > and “magick” is a dumb way to spell it.) Fight your ignorance. [Magick – the popularity of the writings of Aleister Crowley and his post-Theosophical mystical preferences have influenced modern spelling conventions such that today more often than not stage MAGIC is differentiated from esoteric and occult MAGICK. this is the standard form accepted by DMOZ editors to cover the range of subject topics related to rituals, spells, ceremonial and other types of magick.](http://dir.nodeworks.com/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Esoteric_and_Occult/Magick/desc.asp) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/20 "2004-12-27T10:00:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > [Hunh?](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aspersion) Dunno. Wrong word. 😃 My only excuse is it’s still early for me. > [@](#): > > No, it isn’t. > What part of “transliterations are phonetic approximations” is giving people so much trouble? We’re not stupid. We are talking about a specific transliterative spelling for specific individuals who wrote it that way in English. Did you order parts for your Wong Computer or your [Wang Computer](http://computers.techtutorials.com/wang-computers.html)? Do you buy a plane to Hong Kong or Heung Gong? China or Chung Gwo? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757.md?page=2)