# It's "Gandhi," not "Ghandi." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757 "2004-12-27T08:49:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/21 "2004-12-27T10:07:34Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > We’re not stupid. Trust me friend **jjimm** , this is in the pit. If I were to feel like calling anybody stupid, there would be no doubt. > [@jjimm](#): > > We are talking about a specific transliterative spelling for specific individuals who wrote it that way in English. If that was the case, the OP wouldn’t be saying that “SERIOUSLY” people sound like idiots for not using the same transliteration. One doesn’t sound like an idiot for using a perfectly valid alternate transliteration. If the debate is over what spelling the Gandhi family prefered, I agree. If the debate is over which is the “correct” or “not idiotic” way of spelling it, I disagree. > [@jjimm](#): > > Did you order parts for your Wong Computer or your [Wang Computer](http://computers.techtutorials.com/wang-computers.html)? Do you buy a plane to Hong Kong or Heung Gong? China or Chung Gwo? Yes, there are accepted transliterations for certain proper names, I wouldn’t deny that. But that doesn’t make them ‘correct’, simply prevelant. For instance, “Peking” as a transliteration for “Bejing” ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/22 "2004-12-27T10:08:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, in the technical sense. In the factual sense. In the realistic sense. In the rational sense. In the actual sense. Etc… No, in the general sense, as opposed to the specific sense, as in the case of Mohandas K. Gandhi and his family. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Funny, and here I thought your OP was taking people to task for using the ‘wrong’ spelling. How can there be a ‘wrong’ spelling if there is no absolute for other people? Because there _is_ an absolute for _these_ people. Are you really so thick that you can’t make the distinction between general and specific? How many more times do I have to say it? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Approximations which by their very nature cannot be absolute do not, via magick, become **absulute** because someone wants them to be. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ya don’t say? Yuh-huh. > [@FinnAgin](#): > > Fight your ignorance. I don’t care what NodeWorks has to say, it’s still a stupid way to spell it. ABSOLUTELY. NYAH. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/23 "2004-12-27T10:11:26Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > (BTW, **Anastasaeon** , I disagree about the “Leger” point. The way you want your name to be spelled is the correct way.) I understand and respect what you are saying. I do spell the name “Leger” for that particular family, out of respect for the way they want it spelled. Though going back through the family tree, and seeing others with the same name spelled differently makes people wonder what happened. “Aunt’s whim”, they say. I spell my first name “Anastasia”, though I get many, many variations of it. My FIL is forever spelling it “Anastacia”. Like I said, though, maybe it’s just me who doesn’t mind. When others DO mind, I respect their wishes. I won’t argue with a Sarah who hates to be Sara 😉 It’s just MHO (very humble) that there’s no right or wrong way. I will spell it the way the family decides to spell it, but I’m not sure how much I’d want to call someone else an “idiot” for not spelling it the way the family does (as per the OP). It’s just too easy to get lost in translation. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/24 "2004-12-27T10:14:22Z")
> [@Anastasaeon](#): > > (as per the OP). Which is _you_, darling! Of course I knew that as I typed it! Naturally! :smack: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/25 "2004-12-27T10:18:59Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > No, in the general sense, as opposed to the specific sense, as in the case of Mohandas K. Gandhi and his family. No, even in the specific case it is still a matter of personal preference, not correctness. Besides, to steal your phrasing, are you really so thick that you don’t grok that in any case, general **or** specific, it is _still_ an aproximation? > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Because there _is_ an absolute for _these_ people. Are you really so thick that you can’t make the distinction between general and specific? How many more times do I have to say it? I don’t know, are you so thick that you don’t understand your OP calls people idiots for transliterating it differently? Thus suggesting an objective standard of transliteration? If your rant is “Don’t tell the Gandhis how to spell their name in English!”, then, um, ok. Anything beyond that is factually incorrect, especially if you call people idiots. > [@Tracy Lord](#): > > I don’t care what NodeWorks has to say, it’s still a stupid way to spell it. ABSOLUTELY. NYAH. The spelling denotes a different word. As such, it’s, to use your terms, SERIOUSLY idiotic to call a word stupid because you don’t like how it’s spelled. [Magick According to the famous occultist Aleister Crowley, magick is “the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.” … In fact, Crowley… says that “every intentional act is a Magickal Act.” If you follow his line of reasoning, there is a great deal of validity in what he says, although it is not what we are seeking at this time. We need to make the definition of magick a bit longer: Magick is the science and art of causing change (in consciousness) to occur in conformity with will, using means not currently understood by traditional Western science.](http://www.llewellynencyclopedia.com/subjects.php?gen_sbj=Magic+and+Ritual) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/26 "2004-12-27T10:20:02Z")
> [@Anastasaeon](#): > > Which is _you_, darling! Of course I knew that as I typed it! Naturally! :smack: 😉 Actually, it could refer to ‘post’ just as easily as ‘poster’. So it might not refer to her 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/27 "2004-12-27T10:22:41Z")
From a brief search, it seems there’s a standard transliteration convention (Rice?) that distinguishes between the Hindi “gh” and “g” sound, and the “dh” and “d” sound. “Gandhi” is constructed using this version. The spelling “Ghandi” would conflict with this and give a wrong approximation of the actual name. Unless the people using this spelling are working with a different transliteration system? ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/28 "2004-12-27T10:25:20Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Actually, it could refer to ‘post’ just as easily as ‘poster’. > So it might not refer to her 😉 I thought it might, but I had to be safe. I’m no gosh darn\* fun in the Pit, I try too hard not to step on people’s toes! 😃 \*Translation: goddamn muthafucking jaysus keeeyrist on a pogostick (hey, I had to add something to make the Pit proud) ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/29 "2004-12-27T10:25:33Z")
Please to note that I did not call anyone an idiot, but said that they _sounded_ (read?) like idiots. So long as we’re on the topic. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/30 "2004-12-27T10:25:53Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > From a brief search, it seems there’s a standard transliteration convention (Rice?) that distinguishes between the Hindi “gh” and “g” sound, and the “dh” and “d” sound. “Gandhi” is constructed using this version. > > The spelling “Ghandi” would conflict with this and give a wrong approximation of the actual name. Unless the people using this spelling are working with a different transliteration system? The importance is to note that it’s a system, not an absolute law. For instance, if I set up a system that was logicaly coherent and consistent I could transliterate it “Gondhi” “Gondhee.” Etc… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/31 "2004-12-27T10:27:57Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > For instance, if I set up a system that was logicaly coherent and consistent I could transliterate it “Gondhi” “Gondhee.” Etc… Indeed, but were you to use this, may I suggest that, given the many-decades-long convention of transliterative spelling of this name, you’d look a bit of an idiot? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/32 "2004-12-27T10:28:28Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Please to note that I did not call anyone an idiot, but said that they _sounded_ (read?) like idiots. So long as we’re on the topic. 😉 Fair enough, but you’re still wrong. Someone doesn’t sound like an idiot for using a different transliteration. For instance, in my years of going to temple I’ve seen a great many different transliterations. Never once have I accused a Rabbi of sounding or writing like an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/33 "2004-12-27T10:29:01Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > The importance is to note that it’s a system, not an absolute law. > > For instance, if I set up a system that was logicaly coherent and consistent I could transliterate it “Gondhi” “Gondhee.” Etc… And you’d still be wrong. Unless you can prove that he’d been spelling it “Mohandas K. Gondhee” all his life, _in English, which he spoke and wrote_. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/34 "2004-12-27T10:29:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Indeed, but were you to use this, may I suggest that, given the many-decades-long convention of transliterative spelling of this name, you’d look a bit of an idiot? 😉 You may suggest it. However I don’t see any idiocy inherent in creating another somewhat arbitrary and non-absolute system to replace another somewhat arbitrary and non-absolute system. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/35 "2004-12-27T10:31:57Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > And you’d still be wrong. Unless you can prove that he’d been spelling it “Mohandas K. Gondhee” all his life, _in English, which he spoke and wrote_. Um, no. I wouldn’t be wrong unless I said “this is how **he spelled his name in English**.” If I said “This is an **alternate and equally valid transliteration to English**.” I would be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/36 "2004-12-27T10:34:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Fair enough, but you’re still wrong. > Someone doesn’t sound like an idiot for using a different transliteration. > > For instance, in my years of going to temple I’ve seen a great many different transliterations. Never once have I accused a Rabbi of sounding or writing like an idiot. They do so when it’s not the way the family in question spells it. And _especially_ when they refer to the 1982 Ben Kingsley picture, but definitely when the family of Mohandas K. Gandhi is concerned. Hell, to tangent, because “Gandhi” is the commonly accepted spelling (its correctness in this case is irrelevant), they still _sound_ like idiots for spelling it differently. But that doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/37 "2004-12-27T10:34:00Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Please to note that I did not call anyone an idiot, but said that they _sounded_ (read?) like idiots. So long as we’re on the topic. 😉 Well, foo, that sucks all the fun out of it! “You called me an idiot!” “No, I didn’t. I said you sounded like an idiot.” “Fru… wha… zuh? BAH!” “Nice comeback.” “Zoo!” 😃 But still. In case you’re _thinking_ about calling someone an idiot. There’s always that threat hanging in the air over our heads, if we misinterpret and/or misspell a name because we’re not sure, or don’t care unless the family asks us to care. “Psst. The family spells it differently.” “So?” “\*\*Tracy Lord \*\* of the SDMB might think it looks idiotic.” “Eep! How’s that spelled again? I don’t want to _look_ like an idiot!” I tease, I tease. 😛 But I still stand by the idea that I will respect a family’s wishes to spell something a certain way, but not that is correct or incorrect either way, simply because I have first cousins named “Leger”, and the other first cousins are of the exact same family, and named “Legere”. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/38 "2004-12-27T10:46:58Z")
**Tracy** : Have fun with this thread. I’m kinda tired of it and going to unsubscribe. Might check back in later, but even the indefatigable Finn gets tired of semantic/linguistic mincing after a while. Ciao ciao. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/39 "2004-12-27T10:59:24Z")
People misspell and mispronounce my name all the time. I can count on one hand the number of people who have ever gotten it consistently right without asking me first, and they rarely ask me first. When I was a kid, my friends often couldn’t spell my first name, which only has four letters in it and is one of the most common names in the world. So frankly, misspelling a name in a way that a huge majority of people spell it so that’s what we’re exposed to most often anyway, is no big deal to me. It really shouldn’t be too big of a deal to anyone but the family concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757/40 "2004-12-27T11:00:21Z")
Ok, then. My co-worker is named 坂本. This may appear as gibberish on your browser, but it’s the kanji characters for ‘hill’ and ‘origin’. Now, he moves to America and begins using the standard romaji reading for his name, Sakamoto. He uses this spelling to create all his ID cards, business cards, credit cards, membership cards, signatures, etc. Now I, being of the opinion that transliterations are all relative and of equal validity, decide to call him Sahcamotoh. He says I’ve misspelled his name. I say I haven’t. Who’s right? Now, same question, only my co-worker was born in America and has a birth certificate that reads “James Randolph Sakamoto.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-gandhi-not-ghandi/281757.md?page=3)