# It's getting worse for Hillary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 12, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653 "2015-08-12T13:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/41 "2015-08-18T04:36:00Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Just bad judgment all around. Apparently she had the server from her 2008 POTUS run, and she suggested that she just continue using it once she became SOS. Instead of telling her that it was a bad idea, her staff just made it happen. Actually, I just read an article that said the mail server was a new install. I think the two things, besides some super secret info on her mail server, that could sink her are the bad judgement angle and her obvious lies. We elect a President, among other things, to make judgement calls. Clinton’s horrid judgement in this case is hard to justify. ‘I put national security at risk because I didn’t want to carry two devices’ is a hard sell. And her denials are starting to look like straight up lies. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/42 "2015-08-18T05:01:10Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And it’s getting a bit late in the game for some white knight to jump into the race and save us from Hillary, and the awful spectre of Bush vs Clinton in 2016. Meh. Jeb isn’t looking so hot either. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/43 "2015-08-18T05:43:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Nobody would ever vote for that commie McGovern in the primaries. The country is far different from how it was in 1972. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/44 "2015-08-18T05:47:41Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Actually, I just read an article that said the mail server was a new install. > > I think the two things, besides some super secret info on her mail server, that > could sink her are the bad judgement angle and her obvious lies. > > We elect a President, among other things, to make judgement calls. Clinton’s horrid judgement in this case is hard to justify. ‘I put national security at risk because I didn’t want to carry two devices’ is a hard sell. > > And her denials are starting to look like straight up lies. > > Slee Her denials have been assessed: [They’re straight up bullshit](http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/08/17/clinton-email-factsheet-false-misleading-column/31649655/?siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-e8.ZSaiRxNghzIOG8E3QRQ). ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/45 "2015-08-18T06:30:12Z")
I’m cool with Trump v. Sanders anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/46 "2015-08-18T06:49:07Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > The country is far different from how it was in 1972. What’s your point? It’s obviously much different but peoples political considerations are malleable. Voters who would never have considered Sanders before may listen to him in after being disillusioned by those they trusted before. In that regard the country isn’t that much different now, there are a lot of people who feel betrayed by the establishment candidates who took them down the wrong path. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/47 "2015-08-18T07:01:12Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Flashbacks to 2007 when Hillary was “inevitable.” \ > > So let me ask you something. She couldn’t rustle up enough votes to win the nomination last time she ran. Which constituency among the Democratic voters do you think she’s going to pick up this time to make up the difference from last time? Because I haven’t read a single person anywhere I follow politics who has said they didn’t vote for her last time but will this time. On the other hand, I’ve heard from a lot of people who did support her last time, who aren’t going to support her this time. Muh anecdotal evidence. You do realize the black vote, which overwhelmingly supported Obama in 2008, currently supports Hillary by similar margins even as she retains her leads the last time amongst Hispanics, working-class whites, and women? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/48 "2015-08-18T07:05:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Muh anecdotal evidence. You do realize the black vote, which overwhelmingly supported Obama in 2008, currently supports Hillary by similar margins even as she retains her leads the last time amongst Hispanics, working-class whites, and women? That’s now. Guess who can turn that around by endorsing Bernie? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/49 "2015-08-18T07:37:51Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > … She doesn’t expect that anyone will think she’s a great candidate or will make a great president–plainly no one does. She expects to be seen as the front runner because she’s the front runner, a political version of “famous for being famous”. _I’ve been a national figure for 25 years, my husband was president, Wall Street billionaires are giving me money by the truckload, so how can I possibly not win? You might as well just vote for me and get it over with._ > > The fact that she’s running barely ahead of some freak with crazy hair who wasn’t even a Democrat for most of his career and doesn’t know that the 60’s are over kind of punctures that aura of inevitability. I guess we can put you in the unenthusiastic column. I know it’s over a year away, but have you given any thought to which party you’ll vote for in the general election? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/50 "2015-08-18T08:03:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Muh anecdotal evidence. You do realize the black vote, which overwhelmingly supported Obama in 2008, currently supports Hillary by similar margins even as she retains her leads the last time amongst Hispanics, working-class whites, and women? Once again I have to remind you of 2007. August 2007 among black voters: – Pew Research: Hillary Clinton 47%, Barack Obama 34% And it was even worse three months later in October: – [CNN: Clinton 57%, Obama 33%](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/17/poll.blacks.democrats/index.html). No one has the black vote sewn up now, [least of all Hillary,](http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/04/will_african_american_voters_show_up_for_hillary_clinton.html) who, may I remind you black voters abandoned in droves after what the felt was a [very racist campaig](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7910526)n she ran against Obama. If you think they’ve forgotten or forgiven, think again. I find it incredible that I’m constantly providing historical and current polling and other trending data along with links to sources to back up what I’m saying, and all I get from Hillary supporters is foot stomping, speculation and whining. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/51 "2015-08-18T11:47:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Muh anecdotal evidence. You do realize the black vote, which overwhelmingly supported Obama in 2008, currently supports Hillary by similar margins even as she retains her leads the last time amongst Hispanics, working-class whites, and women? That is the key. Black voters will put her over the top, although Sanders is working hard on that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/52 "2015-08-18T14:10:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That is the key. Black voters will put her over the top, although Sanders is working hard on that problem. More speculation based on no evidence. [She needs 90-95% of the black vote to beat Sanders](http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/04/will_african_american_voters_show_up_for_hillary_clinton.html). She won’t get that much. She isn’t even polling at that much now, and the more black voters, just like every other demographic, get to know Sanders, the more the scales will tip even further toward him and away from her. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/53 "2015-08-18T15:12:47Z")
Shayna, not everyone who thinks Hillary is going to win the nomination are “Hillary supporters”. I thought Romney was going to win the 2012 Republican nomination, did that make me a Romney supporter? Hillary is very likely to win the nomination. Sanders is an extreme long shot. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but wanting him to win and predicting he’s definitely going to win are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/54 "2015-08-18T15:13:44Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I find it incredible that I’m constantly providing historical and current polling and other trending data along with links to sources to back up what I’m saying, and all I get from Hillary supporters is foot stomping, speculation and whining. No point in arguing with the fanboys. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/55 "2015-08-18T15:43:09Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No point in arguing with the fanboys. I highly doubt Nate Silver is a “fanboy”. So far I’m sticking with him and his track record. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/56 "2015-08-18T15:44:15Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > More speculation based on no evidence. [She needs 90-95% of the black vote to beat Sanders](http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/04/will_african_american_voters_show_up_for_hillary_clinton.html). She won’t get that much. I don’t think that says what you think it says. It’s talking about winning the general election against a Republican. Are you suggesting Sanders is going to switch affiliations and win the Republican nomination? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/57 "2015-08-18T15:48:28Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > …The fact that she’s running barely ahead of some freak with crazy hair who wasn’t even a Democrat for most of his career… He still isn’t willing to say he _is_ a Democrat: [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181.html](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181.html) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/58 "2015-08-18T18:01:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If you say so. She isn’t stealing headlines because she’s not Trump crazy. This thing is a marathon and these runners sneakers don’t even have sweat in them. Oh, I’m not suggesting for an instant one wants to peak this early or that Trump’s “candidacy” is anything other than a PR stunt. Predicting this sort of thing this far out is a fool’s game. My point is merely that Clinton is, let’s be honest, a default candidate, not a terribly interesting one. She could be defeated by a more interesting candidate, though none seem to be interested in running. It is interesting to compare her to her husband; who in August of 1991 thought Bill Clinton was going to be the next President? Who thought he’d even be a nominee? Obviously some did or else he couldn’t have even started the campaign, but as of this point he wasn’t much known outside Arkansas. I would think at this point the Vegas favourites would have been Tom Harkin and Jerry Brown. Clinton wasn’t the clear favourite until a huge win on Super Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/59 "2015-08-18T18:47:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > who in August of 1991 thought Bill Clinton was going to be the next President? Who thought he’d even be a nominee? Obviously some did or else he couldn’t have even started the campaign, but as of this point he wasn’t much known outside Arkansas. He had already been anointed a Rising Young Star when he was chosen to make Dukakis’ nominating speech in 1988. He was always in the top tier of candidates then, along with Jerry Brown and Paul Tsongas. Yes, the best bet was that Poppy Bush would be re-elected, but it was never a stunner that Clinton was the Dem nominee. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/60 "2015-08-18T18:53:11Z")
That’s mostly true, but like O’Malley today he polled REALLY low because of lack of name recognition. Governors often start out at a disadvantage in early polling and Clinton was no exception. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653.md?page=4)