# It's getting worse for Hillary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 12, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653 "2015-08-12T13:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/161 "2015-09-24T14:34:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > the SDMB - a huge dollop of wishful thinking, frosted with rationalization and served with a side order of “those dummies will fall for it this time too”. > > Regards, > Shodan You must post here as an act of penance for your sins, right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/162 "2015-09-25T02:20:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And Kevin Drum takes that pile of crap down [here](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/09/did-state-department-throw-hillary-clinton-under-bus). > > The rest of your post is “Hillary isn’t handling this imaginary scandal as well as she should.” I don’t think there IS a way for her to handle it that would appease the Clinton-haters in the press. If she had the ability to release a recording of every moment of her life from birth to now, and did so, they’d say that the recording “raises more questions than it answers” or some such. How about get the truth out now, rather than lie and keep lying until you get caught? Anyway, she trails Carson now by 10 points, as well as everyone else she’s polled against except Trump. Both Sanders and Biden do better than her against Republicans. Might be time for Democrats to take the hint. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/163 "2015-09-25T07:48:39Z")
Kevin Drum’s defense of Hillary isn’t particularly convincing. Her statement makes it sound like all the secretaries of state were asked to provide their email records at the same time. What happened was that Hillary was asked first in response to the Benghazi investigations in July and then State realized it didn’t have proper records for the others and asked them in October as a matter of record-keeping. Both the timing and reason for the request were different for Hillary compared to the other secretaries of state and her statement is, at best, misleading. In any event, even if you feel that Hillary is a completely innocent victim of an unfair media the fact remains that it is hurting her as a candidate. The media is what it is and handling the media is one of the most important skills of a candidate. If Hillary can’t do it well, the Democratic party should consider getting a candidate who can. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/164 "2015-09-25T13:27:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > How about get the truth out now…? What makes you think that didn’t happen several investigations ago? ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/165 "2015-09-25T13:38:55Z")
Because he didn’t hear what he wanted to hear. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/166 "2015-09-25T14:28:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Anyway, she trails Carson now by 10 points, as well as everyone else she’s polled against except Trump. Both Sanders and Biden do better than her against Republicans. What I have seen is that it is really a tie once we look at the margin of error and once again: you are willfully ignoring that most polls are including Biden in the mix and that is also distorting the numbers in many match ups, as I pointed before this is a clear demonstration to me of the media following their interests regarding their pursuit of a horse race. In fact the longer this goes (including Biden in the polling) the more this looks ridiculous and misleading, this late and with Biden being iffy on his run they should add Biden only if he is running. As for taking the hint, you really do want a Young Creationist, a giver of wrong vaccine advice (and health care in general), wrong adviser on abortion, wrong adviser on economics, a human induced climate change denier and bigot as president? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/167 "2015-09-25T14:33:56Z")
He has the one thing that matters: The ® after his name. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/168 "2015-09-26T13:45:48Z")
Let me see if I understand the logic of the Clinton fans: It’s okay to lie as long as it’s not a “real scandal”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/169 "2015-09-26T13:55:45Z")
Wrong. It’s not okay to lie about someone else lying, and it’s not okay to manufacture scandal. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/170 "2015-09-26T14:13:24Z")
Clinton’s been caught in several lies. Now the State Dept has found work emails she didn’t turn over between her and Petraeus. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/171 "2015-09-26T14:36:45Z")
Speaking of the business of scandal manufacturing, here are [50 headlines](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/09/25/50-headlines-that-reveal-wash-post-reporter-chr/205765) of WaPo ‘reporter’ Chris Cillizza’s pieces about Hillary Clinton. They include goodies like “Hillary Clinton’s private email address at State reinforces everything people don’t like about her” and “Hillary Clinton’s tweet isn’t going to solve her email problem. Not even close” and of course a bunch of variations on “Hillary’s email controversy isn’t going away” and “the email story keeps getting worse for Hillary.” Our liberal media in action. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/172 "2015-09-26T18:34:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Clinton’s been caught in several lies. How about a few of your favorites, then? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/173 "2015-09-27T03:29:49Z")
Like she gave all her work related emails to State. False. She only used a private server so she could have one device. False. The private emails were things like emails to her husband, who doesn’t use email. Then there’s her goalpost moving on classified information. And most recently she lied about what the State Department asked her for her emails. As in, they didn’t know she had a private server until they realized they couldn’t find her emails. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/174 "2015-09-27T03:58:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Like she gave all her work related emails to State. False. > > She only used a private server so she could have one device. False. > > The private emails were things like emails to her husband, who doesn’t use email. > > Then there’s her goalpost moving on classified information. > > And most recently she lied about what the State Department asked her for her emails. As in, they didn’t know she had a private server until they realized they couldn’t find her emails. As an example of how misleading that point is of “moving the goalpost”, one should realize that the goalposts were moved by the state department and intelligence groups, not Clinton. This “scandal” begins to sound more and more like the old scandals, it may be that something that she did was wrong, but it is the attempt at classifying things as criminal after the fact that in the past did cause many people into realizing that the critics were pushing really asinine talking points that made the Clintons then sound more reasonable and less at fault in the end. People are more likely to realize that they were manipulated into following a misleading narrative. > **[Myths And Facts On Hillary Clinton's Email And Reports Of "Top Secret" Materials](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/myths-and-facts-hillary-clintons-email-and-reports-top-secret-materials)** > > Media are exploiting news that two emails Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton turned over to the State Department from her time as secretary of state may be retroactively classified as "top secret" to push myths about Clinton's handling... > [@](#): > > FACT: IG Referral To Justice Department Was Not Criminal, And FBI Isn’t Targeting Clinton Herself > > Reuters: Inspector General Referral Is Not Criminal. Reuters reported on July 24 that there was “no criminal referral over [the] Clinton emails”: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > The Justice Department said Friday it has received a request to examine the handling of classified information related to the private emails from Hillary Clinton during her time as secretary of state, but it is not a criminal referral. [Reuters, 7/24/15 > > > > ``` > > ] > > AP: U.S. Official Said That Request Of DOJ “Doesn’t Suggest Wrongdoing By Clinton Herself.” The Associated Press quoted an anonymous U.S. official who noted that the referral did not implicate Clinton in any wrongdoing: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > The New York Times first reported the referral. The Clinton campaign said Friday that she "followed appropriate practices in dealing with classified materials." Spokesman Nick Merrill said emails deemed classified by the administration were done so after the fact, not when they were sent. > > > > ``` > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > One U.S. official said it was unclear whether classified information was mishandled and the referral doesn't suggest wrongdoing by Clinton herself. [Associated Press, 7/24/15] > > > > ``` > > Wash. Post: Officials Say Clinton “Is Not A Target” Of FBI Probe. The Washington Post reported that government officials said Clinton is “not a target” of the FBI’s investigation: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > Hillary Rodham Clinton's attorney has agreed to provide the FBI with the private server that housed her e-mail during her four years as secretary of state, Clinton's presidential campaign said Tuesday. > > > > ``` > > ``` > [...] > > ``` > > > [@](#): > > > > The inquiry by the FBI is considered preliminary and appears to be focused on ensuring the proper handling of classified material. Officials have said that Clinton, the Democratic presidential front-runner, is not a target. > > > > ``` > > The FBI's efforts have included contacting the Denver-based technology firm that helped manage the Clintons' unusual private e-mail system. [The Washington Post, 8/11/15] > > > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/175 "2015-09-27T04:09:37Z")
I’m agnostic as to whether there is an actual scandal here myself. But that’s why lying is so stupid. Her instinct whenever she’s faced with a negative story is to go into full spin and obfuscation mode. It’s a fine strategy for wearing down the public when you’re having a scandal while in office. Doesn’t work for campaigning though. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/176 "2015-09-27T04:23:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m agnostic as to whether there is an actual scandal here myself. But that’s why lying is so stupid. Again what I pointed out was no lie, as for the others, as I pointed before most are happening because the classifications and rules were changed after. Again pushing for it to be an scandal or lies is what makes many to then realize that they have seen this movie before. It is like Captain Louis Renault looking to get Rick in Casablanca. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/177 "2015-09-27T04:38:11Z")
> **[PolitiFact - Hillary Clinton: Emails wouldn't be public if I hadn't asked for it](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/20/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-emails-wouldnt-be-public-if-i-hadn/)** > > Hillary Clinton says her emails are now out in the open solely because she wanted them to be made public. In an Aug. 17 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/178 "2015-09-27T04:42:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [PolitiFact | Hillary Clinton: Emails wouldn't be public if I hadn't asked for it](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/20/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-emails-wouldnt-be-public-if-i-hadn/) And that really does sound like Politifact bending like a pretzel to get a “mostly false” I do not agree as they had to acknowledge that she was the one that requested all emails to be released, and that indeed not all would had been out unless she had requested it. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/179 "2015-09-27T04:47:10Z")
Hell, it’s not like the NSA wasn’t monitoring her private emails all those years anyway. So, she’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Bi5h0p](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Bi5h0p](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bi5h0p)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653/180 "2015-09-27T05:00:25Z")
I must say, all of this energy put into election gossip and speculation is so banal. Do you all really think that “We The People” have anything to do with actually electing the next POTUS??? Really? The Electoral College elects the President, with it’s own corrupted and outdated system, the last POTUS popular vote was tabulated by some tech company from Spain, of all places! Don’t you remember the Supreme Court giving the Presidency to George W. Bush? Or the fact that Obama wielded the arms of govt. against conservatives in the last election? Then, there’s the fact that ALL of the major media outlets are owned by a very select few rich people. You think anything anybody can hear about polls or “election news” isn’t totally controlled and pre-packaged? U.S. elections are a complete farce, and they have been for quite some time. Your time and energy would be better spent learning about or doing something useful - not watching the “play” put on by popular culture about a false election process. Really, people, please - do something useful, do something fun, or do something relaxing. All of this election talk is a complete waste of your time and energy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-getting-worse-for-hillary/727653.md?page=10)