# Its hard to legitimately complain about Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348 "2005-09-06T15:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/1 "2005-09-06T15:50:36Z")
There is so much irrational Bush bashing that it is hard to address his shortcomings without coming across as another mindless anti-Bush partisan. But jesus christ. He & Cheney ran on a platform of ‘we will keep you safe’ in 2004 when fighting against Kerry & Edwards. WTF? 1. Clinton was working on a deal with N. Korea and Bush dropped it in 2000, now we are in a standoff. Perhaps it wasn’t a great deal, but Bush dropped it. 2. Bush didn’t address terrorism until it was too late 3. Bush invaded Iraq, which I was in favor of on humanitarian grounds but now all we’ve done is given more motivation to terrorists. 4. I was watching Keith Olberman giving an op-ed piece on New Orleans and he talked about ‘where is Dick Cheney, a year ago he was doing debates saying that ‘the other guy won’t keep you safe’ and now he is nowhere to be seen’. Its such bullshit. 5. The head of FEMA has no experience and background and is just a crony. Funds for Levees were cut before the hurricane, FEMA didn’t know what it was doing. I’m 100% certain the admin will not take any responsibility for any of this just like with 9/11. with 9/11 only one man (I forget his name, I think the ex-head of counterterrorism) took any responsibility. This sucks. I don’t feel safe at all with Bush. I am not an irrational Bush basher and I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt but this is too much. We fucked up as a nation and as a government. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/2 "2005-09-06T15:53:25Z")
I guess it’s not that hard after all. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/3 "2005-09-06T16:14:05Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > There is so much irrational Bush bashing that it is hard to address his shortcomings without coming across as another mindless anti-Bush partisan. Has it occured to you that perhaps we _aren’t_ “mindless” and “irrational” ? With such a huge amount of evidence for his incompetence - like the things you mention in you own OP - I think it’s far more mindless and irrational at this point to _support_ Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/4 "2005-09-06T16:14:30Z")
Dude, now is not the time to criticize. We’re in a War on Terror. And a War on Hurricanes. Possibly also a Global Struggle Against Violent Extremists. Oh, and a War On Drugs. I think we surrendered on the War On Poverty, but an official declaration was never made on that one, so it might still count as being open still. Once those are done you can complain without being a godless pinko commie traitor. Until then, though, keep your mouth shut, voter. -Joe, herr voter Colonel ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/5 "2005-09-06T16:28:39Z")
No one expected a plane to fly into the levee… er, hurricane into a tower… or something like that. The new Bush uber excuse: **We Didn’t Know.** ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/6 "2005-09-06T16:34:57Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Dude, now is not the time to criticize. We’re in a War on Terror. And a War on Hurricanes. > > Possibly also a Global Struggle Against Violent Extremists. > > Oh, and a War On Drugs. > > I think we surrendered on the War On Poverty, but an official declaration was never made on that one, so it might still count as being open still. > > Once those are done you can complain without being a godless pinko commie traitor. Until then, though, keep your mouth shut, voter. > > -Joe, herr voter Colonel Nah - the wars on Poverty and Drugs were just police actions… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/7 "2005-09-06T16:40:12Z")
> [@picker](#): > > Nah - the wars on Poverty and Drugs were just police actions… Funny tangential question on that then - is there some requirement that a “Police Action” (aka Korea) need be referred to as a Police Action in all official stuff? Or can ‘they’, meaning government agencies, refer to it as a ‘war’? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/8 "2005-09-06T16:49:28Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Funny tangential question on that then - is there some requirement that a “Police Action” (aka Korea) need be referred to as a Police Action in all official stuff? Or can ‘they’, meaning government agencies, refer to it as a ‘war’? > > -Joe [Korean War Veterans Memorial](http://www.nps.gov/kowa/), National Park Service The Korean War is pretty universally referred to that way by US governmental agencies, as are subsequent undeclared US wars, such as the Vietnam War and the Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/9 "2005-09-06T16:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > ‘where is Dick Cheney, a year ago he was doing debates saying that ‘the other guy won’t keep you safe’ and now he is nowhere to be seen’. The Vice President has been moved to an undisclosed location to maintain the continuity of government in case the President is the target of a second hurricane. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/10 "2005-09-06T17:12:45Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Dude, now is not the time to criticize. We’re in a War on Terror. And a War on Hurricanes. Hey! If you don’t support the president, low pressure systems win! ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/11 "2005-09-06T17:15:49Z")
And the next one maybe a K nock- [O](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/06/tropical.weather.ap/)ut. You can run but you cannot hide BushCo! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/12 "2005-09-06T17:33:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Hey! If you don’t support the president, low pressure systems win! I think the important question is figuring out how to blame the French for this. Of course, we could just make hurricanes our allies. You know, rename them “Freedom Storms” or something. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/13 "2005-09-06T17:34:03Z")
I thought [Paul Krugman’s column](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/opinion/05krugman.html?incamp=article_popular) in the NYTimes made some good points in regards to the seeming inaction of the fed. (The column currently doesn’t require an account) > [@](#): > > The Chicago Tribune reports that the U.S.S. Bataan, equipped with six operating rooms, hundreds of hospital beds and the ability to produce 100,000 gallons of fresh water a day, has been sitting off the Gulf Coast since last Monday - without patients. > > Experts say that the first 72 hours after a natural disaster are the crucial window during which prompt action can save many lives. Yet action after Katrina was anything but prompt. Newsweek reports that a “strange paralysis” set in among Bush administration officials, who debated lines of authority while thousands died. > [@](#): > > You might have expected the administration to reconsider its hostility to emergency preparedness after 9/11 - after all, emergency management is as important in the aftermath of a terrorist attack as it is following a natural disaster. As many people have noticed, the failed response to Katrina shows that we are less ready to cope with a terrorist attack today than we were four years ago. Nothing new, but a rather accurate and damning summary it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/14 "2005-09-06T17:34:18Z")
That’s the bottom line isn’t it? It seemed for a moment that even conservatives might be willing to admit that there was a real screwup here. But it largely turned out that the old game of “find the goofy liberals who go too far in their criticism and focus almost exclusively on them” was more important than holding their government accountable for something. For once. If folks are assigning blame to the administration a little too fast, maybe it’s because they are used to seeing that NO ONE in this administration ever seems to be to blame for anything, no matter how unbelievably screwed up an operation is, a budget gets, or how clearly incompetant someone is. If I don’t spend much time discussing Hagin and Blanco, it’s in large part because I’m 100% sure they’ll bear tons of blame anyway, and probably deservedly. Heck, more tax-payer funded federal resources are currently being poured on to ensure that than are to find out what the feds did wrong. But the Bush administration itself? As long as fellow-travelers insulate it from the fallout of its own policy choices, it will never have any reason to apologize or do a single second of soul-searching. Brit Hume was on yesterday trying to find a local Republican that would tell him what he wanted to hear: that the locals were all at fault. He kept giving them a not-so-subtle prompting to say so, to follow the recently diseminated script, and when they said that the federal government shares plenty of the blame as well, he looked surprised and startled and then moved on to someone else, all to no avail. Luckily, the Fox “news” format allows you to switch right over into Sean Hannity to give the “news” the desired context of right-thinking opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/15 "2005-09-06T17:37:51Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Of course, we could just make hurricanes our allies. You know, rename them “Freedom Storms” or something. Still too negative; I nominate “Liberty Breezes” . ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/16 "2005-09-06T17:40:45Z")
More poetic: “The Wind Beneath Our (Eagle) Wings.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/17 "2005-09-06T17:46:25Z")
See, here’s the thing. Criticism of President Bush doesn’t have to stray way over into loony wacko conspiracy territory. It frequently does, though, and such loony wackos aren’t told by their fellow travelers to fuck off and let legitimate criticism continue. Proof of that can be seen in the Cindy Sheehan episode of late. I can see how some might be quite willing to associate themselves with her antiwar activism, but her other political views (like, for instance, her support for radical lawyer and convicted terrorist supporter Lynne Stewart) were far outside of the political mainstream, and would turn lots of people in the middle off. George Bush has made plenty of mistakes, and about the only thing that has saved him politically at times is the incompetence of his opponents. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/18 "2005-09-06T17:46:39Z")
> [@chela](#): > > And the next one maybe a K nock- [O](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/06/tropical.weather.ap/)ut. > > You can run but you cannot hide BushCo! Sheesh, can’t we get a break. I didn’t know that it had turned into Ophelia. Hope this one is more fizzle than bang. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/19 "2005-09-06T18:02:31Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Proof of that can be seen in the Cindy Sheehan episode of late. I can see how some might be quite willing to associate themselves with her antiwar activism, but her other political views (like, for instance, her support for radical lawyer and convicted terrorist supporter Lynne Stewart) were far outside of the political mainstream, and would turn lots of people in the middle off. Yes, but luckily as that’s an ad hominem logical fallacy, most people would recognize that individual claims should be evaluated on individual merits. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348/20 "2005-09-06T18:16:05Z")
Not possible in politics. Sorry. If you ride into town on horseback, folks there will judge you on how pretty your horse is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-hard-to-legitimately-complain-about-bush/320348.md?page=2)