# It's. Its. ITS! IT'S! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646 "2007-11-16T04:17:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/41 "2007-11-16T18:11:16Z")
People who put apostrophes in the wrong place are loosers. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/42 "2007-11-16T18:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] English is full of those little idiosyncracies. I think somewhere in the next twenty-five years or so the apostrophe will go the way of the semicolon; disused, misunderstood and generally frowned upon because few can use it correctly. [/QUOTE] Please tell me that using a semicolon rather than a colon here was a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/43 "2007-11-16T18:49:28Z")
[QUOTE=GuanoLad] But who the hell _knows_ that kind of information? About 0.000000001% of the population of the planet. [/QUOTE] Then I expect to see you using _her’s, hi’s, your’s, our’s, their’s_ and similar in the future. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/44 "2007-11-16T20:02:45Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] English is full of those little idiosyncracies. I think somewhere in the next twenty-five years or so the apostrophe will go the way of the semicolon; disused, misunderstood and generally frowned upon because few can use it correctly. [/QUOTE] Sometimes I think that way too. I’m with the OP, the “its” vs. “it’s” mistake drives me nuts too, but there are many cases where I have to look it up. For example: Today I am listening to my iPod playlist of Arnold’s best songs from the '80s - apostrophe before the s indicating the plural? no apostrophe? AAAARRRRGH!!! When looking it up, I see at this page ( [Purdue OWL® - Purdue OWL® - Purdue University](http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html) ) the rule > [@](#): > > Forming plurals of lowercase letters > > Apostrophes are used to form plurals of letters that appear in lowercase; here the rule appears to be more typographical than grammatical, e.g. “three ps” versus “three p’s.” To form the plural of a lowercase letter, place 's after the letter. There is no need for apostrophes indicating a plural on capitalized letters, numbers, and symbols (though keep in mind that some editors, teachers, and professors still prefer them). Here are some examples: > > ``` > p's and q's = a phrase indicating politeness, possibly from "mind your pleases and thankyous"? > Nita's mother constantly stressed minding one's p's and q's. > > three Macintosh G4s = three of the Macintosh model G4 > There are two G4s currently used in the writing classrom. > > many &s = many ampersands > That printed page has too many &s on it. > > the 1960s = the years in decade from 1960 to 1969 > The 1960s were a time of great social unrest. > > ``` _minding my p’s and q’s_ - how does an apostrophe make sense here? AAAARRRGGHHHH ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/45 "2007-11-16T20:10:12Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Only proper English if you’re Brooke Burke. [/QUOTE] Fast food restaurant names also stand in as mass nouns referring to food that comes from those restaurants. I can’t imagine how you would argue otherwise. And since the usage is perfectly common and widespread, an argument would be required. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/46 "2007-11-16T22:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Then I expect to see you using _her’s, hi’s, your’s, our’s, their’s_ and similar in the future. 🙂 [/QUOTE] My point is that almost nobody knows that “its” is part of the “yours hers his” group, so that won’t help people remember. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/47 "2007-11-16T22:56:20Z")
[QUOTE=GuanoLad] My point is that almost nobody knows that “its” is part of the “yours hers his” group, so that won’t help people remember. [/QUOTE] You must be joking. Don’t they teach conjugations in school anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/48 "2007-11-16T23:34:06Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Except that she ate something belonging to McDonalds, not the whole place. (Notice the apostrophe.) 😉 [/QUOTE] Which would have been okay if the name of the restaurant was “McDonald”, with an implied noun after it, as in “I ate McDonald’s (hamburgers).” However, since she ate something from McDonalds the fast food chain, it would more properly have been "McDonalds’ ", as in “I ate McDonalds’ (hamburgers).” ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/49 "2007-11-16T23:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You must be joking. Don’t they teach conjugations in school anymore? [/QUOTE] No. They teach abstinence, only. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/50 "2007-11-16T23:53:08Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You must be joking. Don’t they teach conjugations in school anymore? [/QUOTE] They didn’t at my school, and this was 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/51 "2007-11-17T00:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] Which would have been okay if the name of the restaurant was “McDonald”, with an implied noun after it, as in “I ate McDonald’s (hamburgers).” However, since she ate something from McDonalds the fast food chain, it would more properly have been "McDonalds’ ", as in “I ate McDonalds’ (hamburgers).” [/QUOTE] Good point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/52 "2007-11-17T01:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] as in “I ate McDonalds’ (hamburgers).” [/QUOTE] Actually, it would really be “McDonalds’s (hamburgers)” because it’s not a possessive plural, it’s a possessive brand name. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/53 "2007-11-17T03:35:25Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] Which would have been okay if the name of the restaurant was “McDonald”, with an implied noun after it, as in “I ate McDonald’s (hamburgers).” However, since she ate something from McDonalds the fast food chain, it would more properly have been "McDonalds’ ", as in “I ate McDonalds’ (hamburgers).” [/QUOTE] OK, this is just wrong. The name of the restaurant is [McDonald’s](http://www.mcdonalds.com/). Remember, the mascot is Ronald McDonald, not Ronald McDonalds. The OP spelled it correctly and IMO she made no error in saying “I ate McDonald’s.” The noun being modified by “McDonald’s” was implied, but it’s acceptable. The error that really bothers me, far more than its/it’s, is your/you’re. I mean, how fucking hard it is to get this right? You’re = you are. Your = belonging to you. Yet every moron with a MySpace page is trying desperately to phase out “you’re” forever. Drives me nuts. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/54 "2007-11-17T07:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] When looking it up, I see at this page ( [Purdue OWL® - Purdue OWL® - Purdue University](http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html) ) [/QUOTE] > [@Purdue University](#): > > There are two G4s currently used in the writing classrom. (graping mine) classrom? CLASSROM? This is coming form a university? This makes my brain hurt! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/55 "2007-11-17T08:11:38Z")
[QUOTE=gotpasswords] classrom? CLASSROM? This is coming form a university? This makes my brain hurt! [/QUOTE] Boy, if you had to fill out a form to come at a university, there’d be a lot of unhappy fraternities and sororities. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/56 "2007-11-17T09:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] You’re fighting a losing battle. And it’s not just North America. The same error is rife here too. . [/QUOTE] Error? Sez who? Is there a US Law or legal body that has made this ruling? :dubious: If you work at a newspaper or similar and they require you use a certain Guide, then it is a rule _for you and your co-workers._ For everyone else it comes down to two things: \*\*Is it understandable, is the meaning clear? Is it a common usage?\*\* “It’s” as the possesive qualifies under both, thus it is OK, like it or not. If you follow those two simple guidelines there is no need for confusing rules. Of course, those that think they are better than others as they follow a set of rules only they know or care about won’t like it much. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/57 "2007-11-17T10:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] \*\*Is it understandable, is the meaning clear? Is it a common usage?\*\* “It’s” as the possesive qualifies under both, thus it is OK, like it or not. [/QUOTE] No, it’s not a clear meaning when it’s done incorrectly. Someone writes, “Our program will consist of songs from this book.” The guy who responds, “I hate it’s songs,” is expressing that he wishes the program consisted of something other than singing. But the guy who responds, “I hate its songs,” is expressing a dislike for the songs in that particular book. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/58 "2007-11-17T15:07:17Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] OK, this is just wrong. The name of the restaurant is [McDonald’s](http://www.mcdonalds.com/). Remember, the mascot is Ronald McDonald, not Ronald McDonalds. The OP spelled it correctly and IMO she made no error in saying “I ate McDonald’s.” The noun being modified by “McDonald’s” was implied, but it’s acceptable. The error that really bothers me, far more than its/it’s, is your/you’re. I mean, how fucking hard it is to get this right? You’re = you are. Your = belonging to you. Yet every moron with a MySpace page is trying desperately to phase out “you’re” forever. Drives me nuts. [/QUOTE] :smack: ::struggles vainly for a snappy comeback and retires to a corner, sniveling:: ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/59 "2007-11-17T15:20:30Z")
Bob the Angry flower aside, is there a place on the web that explains the difference between the Its/it’s, their/there/they’re and other grammatical thingies? I would love to do up a t-shirt for myself and the kidlets. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646/60 "2007-11-17T16:07:10Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The guy who responds, “I hate it’s songs,” is expressing that he wishes the program consisted of something other than singing. But the guy who responds, “I hate its songs,” is expressing a dislike for the songs in that particular book. [/QUOTE] No. The first person is ignorant of correct grammar [my previous “McDonalds/McDonald’s” debacle aside (but my logic was unassailable ::grumble:: )]. “I hate it is songs” makes no sense whatsoever, and “it’s” **only** translates to “it is”. Or did you mean to say that the first person writes “I hate it; it’s songs” (as opposed to instrumentals)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-its-its-its/426646.md?page=4)