…the pressure on us has just been relentless. Even from our own media, especially during this outbreak, and to get the “doom and gloom” from editorials daily from our own versions of Tucker and Hannity is really hard
Fortunately the government is very good at just ignoring this and just doing it’s own thing. We have a very robust political framework here, we have an independent electoral commission that runs the elections, we have proportional representation, we have guaranteed Maori political representation in our parliament. All of that helps here because it means that the government doesn’t have to pander to lobbyists to keep their seats. They just have to prove to the electorate that they can do their jobs. Which is kind of a rarity in this day and age
I don’t have an opinion on the NZ handling of corona. (NZ is literally on the other side of the world)
I do wonder if “we just have to life with it” isn’t the only thing to do after you have vaccinated a sufficient part of a population. Aren’t indefinite lockdowns the only alternative?
Shouldn’t we now just get on with our lives?
—I a fully vaccinated, wear a mask where appropriate (in a country where masks are not mandated) I will vaccinate my kids the moment the vaccin is available for them—
NZ is a test case for what the upper limit of control is possible. What is the absolute best case?
NZ has done well by being very, very strict, but the delta variant still managed to get through those very strict restrictions and it is almost certain that any further relaxation of travel restrictions will lead to more cases in the future of this and other variants.
So even the very best response in the world at the moment will eventually have to find a way to live with it if returning to more open borders and a pre-2020 mode of living and travelling.
That will consist of widespread vaccination and boosters, better treatments and a move away from strict measures, Just as it is starting to be for such as the UK, Denmark, Sweden etc.
I predict that in 5 years time we will have this virus circulating freely in every country in the world but with a mortality rate on a level with flu and with travel more in line with pre-2020 modes and few, if any, severe restrictions anywhere in the world.
-23 died in the original outbreak April/May 2020
-2 died during the Americold outbreak in August/September
-1 died in MIQ at the start of the year
-1 has died in the current outbreak
Given the speed of virus replication and spread, a nation’s ability to “isolate itself” is effectively a binary variable – either the virus doesn’t get in at all, or it gets in and quickly spreads to the maximum degree possible under the public-health conditions which prevail. No significant population on Earth has managed the former.
The verdict is in as to the results of the public-health conditions which prevail in New Zealand.
We have the actual data from the scientists saying that things work, and then we have people with no credentials whatsoever claiming they don’t. At what point did people start to think they could analyze data as well as the experts?
In a situation where misinformation can kill 50,000 people, I really wish people would be more careful.
The US hasn’t locked down in ages, and then mostly ignored the scientific community on when to come out of lockdown. Mask compliance has always been bad. Trying to use that data to figure out if something works makes no sense. The information that needs to be teased out is not going to be something you can just eyeball.
The good news I suppose, is that the mutation rate is quite a bit lower than that of influenza. So that means that our vaccines will be effective longer than say… a flu shot.
So it could well be that we end up with annual COVID vaccines in much the same way, but they’ll be more tailored to what’s actually being spread in the community, and less of a crap-shoot like influenza currently is. Which translates into greater effectiveness in the long haul.
It is probably not as straightforward as just mask wearing though. Other countries with no mask wearing at all aren’t seeing the virus cause such an issue as in the states.
I suspect there is also something in the high, but very patchy vaccine coverage in the USA. Large numbers of at-risk people remain unvaccinated plus the original gap between doses was short (even though it was the recommended gap) and coverage may be waneing.
Mask usage will help of course but focussing purely on that may…err, mask what other large contributing factors are in driving the death rate.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. However, none of this has anything to do with my response. We had two posters who were trying to claim that masks didn’t work, when the science says otherwise. So I debunked their claim.
I never at any point claimed that masks were the only answer. Just that making irresponsible claims like claiming they didn’t work was a bad thing to do. The actual credible health experts are still pushing masks, saying that, if we could just get everyone wearing masks, 50,000 fewer people would die in these next few months.
Not suggesting you were making any claim of the kind, Just using what you said as a jumping-off point for a comment on other factors that might also be at play.
No criticism intended, just an expansion on your point.
I suspect that having spotty and haphazard vaccine distribution means that this sort of thing here is still happening, and we’re only having people with individual protection, and not the larger-scale protection that would happen with more widespread vaccination (or identifying and vaccinating people likely to spread it like the article suggests).
It’s the “done right” part that’s the difference here. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if there’s a mask mandate in effect; what matters is what percentage of people mask up when they’re in public. At the beginning of 2020, I might have thought those two things were linked, but 1.5 years of evidence has shown me otherwise. Almost everyone here (Seattle, WA) was masking before the statewide mandates went back into effect. Once you get out into Central / Eastern Washington, very few folks are wearing masks. Even though it’s mandated. In neither place has the mandate made much of an impact. Unsurprisingly, we’re doing pretty well (by US standards) here in Seattle.
Yeah, that article is kind of outdated. You know what will save lives? The unvaccinated getting vaccinated. The vaccinated that still will die are high risk, they need to protect themselves. But the unvaccinated and unmasked are highly correlated. Asking the low risk vaccinated to mask up and social distance yet again isn’t going to have much of an impact.
I don’t think there’s been a very good public information program from the start. It’s a public relations issue and that is something that can be researched and then turned into tailored PSA’s.
People don’t grasp the idea that once you’re in the hospital in serious distress the vaccine is useless. We’ve been saving lives with vaccines since 1798. It’s nothing new. They don’t understand that drowning in your own fluids is an incredibly horrible way to die. The PSA’s need to address public awareness in a way that drives people to make better decisions without being beaten over the head with it.
We were averaging under 300 deaths per day in June. now it’s something like 1700 a day and rising in the middle of Sept.
Problem is this is a grass roots problem. There’s no one person who can speak to the unvaxxed that will move the needle. Trump got booed for trying. Anyone that tries will just be labeled a RINO and they’ll move on to someone else. They don’t really need a leader. I suppose they need someone, but the desire to do what they’re doing is so strong that the need can be filled by any crackpot.
Well, maybe not domestic animals other than Cats (as you noted), ferrets, dogs, pigs, rabbits, and hamsters.
"Many studies have been done to learn more about how this virus can affect different animals. These findings were based on a small number of animals, and do not show whether animals can spread infection to people.
Recent experimental research shows that many mammals, including cats, dogs, bank voles, ferrets, fruit bats, hamsters, mink, pigs, rabbits, racoon dogs, tree shrews, and white-tailed deer can be infected with the virus. Cats, ferrets, fruit bats, hamsters, racoon dogs, and white-tailed deer can also spread the infection to other animals of the same species in laboratory settings.
A number of studies have investigated non-human primates as models for human infection. Rhesus macaques, cynomolgus macaques, baboons, grivets, and common marmosets can become infected with SARS-CoV-2 and become sick in a laboratory setting. There is some evidence suggesting that laboratory mice, which could not be infected with original strains of SARS-CoV-2, can be infected with new virus variants.
Chickens and ducks do not seem to become infected or spread the infection based on results from studies."
I’d hate to infect my cats or dogs but at least the 35+ year old Moluccan Cockatoo doesn’t seem to be in the running to catch anything from us. /s (He’ll outlive my family, we’re sure. DH has had him since the bird was ~ 3 years old. He’ll be in our wills and maybe our kids’ wills.)
@Banquet_Bear I am very happy your People are doing well and that your Govt. was on the ball! I wish my Governor (Iowa,USA ~3 million people) would have/now been so proactive. And all of the people in charge of all 49 other States and our Territories as well.
(Next Thought) Iowa has lost 6,337 people to Covid-19. Sure we’re a huge State with a lesser density of population other than “in the big cities” but those of us rural still have to live our lives as in: going to doctor appts., getting groceries (delivery doesn’t do ~25 miles or more away) or even seeing vaxxed family and friends. With the last part ramping up only since the last… 6 months?
I’m disgusted by political shenanigans killing my State even if most are the opposite of my political spectrum.
Washing hands should have been ingrained from Pre-k on, Social Distancing is something I, personally, did other than with Family and Friends (even then usually just a hug to those closest to me which is better than a handshake), and Wearing a Mask (which, unless you were in some kind of medical field or lived through an actual Dust Bowl/wild fires/or smog alert … that was hard to do until it just became habit like wearing a seat belt.)
I’ll never blow out the candles on a whole cake again, for sure. I’ll get a huge cupcake with my birthday age on it instead.
There was a small amount of frustration in the UK during the early stages of the vaccine roll-out when it was very strictly targeted the vulnerable by age-range and co-morbidities etc. However it did have the virtue of being transparently fair and applied high coverage to the vulnerable first.
It seemed perverse to me in the extreme when, talking to American friends and colleagues (and dopers), I heard of 60+ people having difficulty getting a jab arranged whilst 18 year-olds were strolling into drop-in centres. It seemed very arbitrary and unfocussed.
