"It's just a bad Flu, we gotta just live with it." Gaining ground

Let’s say you helped me see the light and I decided to not write them off. What should I do?

…already answered.

So it kind of sounds like you’re just trying to publicly shame me for kicks.

What are you doing to convince conservative Floridians to get vaccinated? Surely you haven’t written them off like heartless me…

(If you say you’re praying for them, I will tip my hat and stand corrected.)

I’m suffering from caring fatigue. I used to care a lot about getting all of America vaccinated, and getting better info out there about masking and distancing. But now I’m leaning toward, “sucks to live there”.

…that a very uncharitable view of my posts.

I think that your views you expressed here (based on everything we can see as well as my interactions with many Americans on these boards) are quite representative. Just read any of the threads about the “unvaccinated.” Many have, just as you have, written them off.

My suggestion to you would be to not write them off. To encourage other Americans on these boards and that you know to not write them off. To refocus on the institutions in power that are causing this.

How do you do that?

I really don’t have a fucking idea. I strongly suspect that you are going to lose the Senate at the next round of elections, then the Presidency, and then things are going to get orders of magnitude worse.

It really comes down to what country you want to live in. You either fight for the America you want. Or you don’t. That’s what this thread is about. Living with covid means thousands of people dying in America every single day. Just not where you live. And it means overwhelmed hospital systems. Just not where you are. And if you are fine with that, then what do you want me to say?

I consider America’s vaccination drive to be over, and that post-covid reality has already begun.

There is an official cutoff line of cases per day where my area is then recommended to mask up. It has reached that cutoff during this spike, so after a month or two of no masking everyone started masking again, nobody seems to notice or care. The occasional random person may not have a mask but nobody cares. Grocery store aisles are two-way again. Schools are in session, though I believe local schools have been fully open since last September.

Once cases go below that cutoff I’m sure most people will stop wearing masks, but then mask up again if we go above it. For the most part we all seem to be doing our part and working as a team, and our results are favorable.

I can’t be invested in what I can’t control. We in Connecticut have literally no control over any other state. We elected Democrats to the House, Senate, and White House. We are good citizens and doing our part. I will not be made to feel bad because of bad citizens not doing their part in some other state we have no control over.

Nor will I continue to stress about or lose sleep over those antivax trumper knuckleheads who I personally could never influence in any way. I can tell you from when I lived in North Carolina, skinny computer guys from Connecticut (Yankees!) did not command respect. Instead, I will invoke the serenity prayer and accept the things I cannot change.

Which is a fancy way of saying that I’ve written them off.

EDIT: To clarify, I love the great state of North Carolina and cherish my time living there and made some wonderful friends. But my unmanliness was certainly a running joke I didn’t hide from, and I was aware of the kernel of sincerity in their ribbing. No chance I would have ever been able to convince a single person I met there of anything that ran counter to one of their strong convictions.

I didn’t see the original so not to worry. I think we were talking at cross purposes initially but that’s clarified and I don’t think we actually disagree that much substantially.

Whether those remaining to vaccinated can be persuaded or not I don’t know. I do know that they remain in numbers high enough to bring about a substantial number of deaths for some time to come. The conversation about what it means to “live with it” will necessarily be coloured by that and I think it would be an easier conversation to have if that figure were lower.

…the Federal government doesn’t consider it over. Which is why the vaccine mandates are being rolled out.

The world doesn’t consider it over. We aren’t in the “post-covid” reality yet. Not be a long shot. Back in June 75% of vaccines have gone to just 10 countries. There is huge inequity. Nigeria, Ethiopia, Kenya, Bangladesh, many countries have low vaccination rates. Even New Zealand couldn’t really start ramping up our vaccination rate until last month and that was entirely due to what Pfizer was able to supply.

Post covid reality for America is 2000 deaths a day next week. It’s 3000 deaths a day a couple of weeks later. Maybe 4000 deaths per day in a month.

The pandemic doesn’t work to your schedule. It just says “thank you very much for deciding to live with me, that is very considerate of you” and then it continues to do its thing.

The pandemic isn’t over.

We already know that. As I’ve said: if you are fine with that, then so be it. This isn’t a criticism. This isn’t a jab at you. Its just really: what else do you want me to say? You aren’t alone, and I know that I’m not going to be able to change your mind.

Right, and I support vaccinating the world and sent elected representatives to Washington who agree. I would prefer a simple “Thank you” instead of your moralistic tut-tuting.

…What you are seeing as “moralistic tut-tuting” is really just an acknowledgement of reality. This isn’t personal. 14,000 Americans are going to die of covid next week. If nothing changes then in a month it will be closer to 30,000. This is the reality of what you call a “post-covid” world. This is what you have decided you can live with.

The pandemic isn’t over. It isn’t going to be over for a very long time.

The entire population of New Zealand is half of the city of New York. I’m sure it’s a lovely place to visi if you can stand the plane ride but it’s hardly the travel hub of the world.

Your understanding of how the vaccines were distributed in the US is completely lacking in reality. We were releasing it back in June of this year because supply exceeded demand. We can’t force people to take it.

There’s no “we” in this. The people who wanted a vaccine got it. The rest can deal with their decisions or get the shot. It’s on them.

…irrelevant. Covid doesn’t respect international borders, and it doesn’t care if we are a “lovely place to visit” or a literal hell hole. It doesn’t care if you are a travel hub or an island nation. Fiji is being ravaged right now. It doesn’t matter if you are big or small, if you are a travel hub or not. Covid doesn’t care.

You are mistaken.

Logistics are only part of a vaccine rollout. And you can force some people to take it (like through mandates that the Federal government are proposing). They aren’t ideal. But you are running out of options.

Ummm…yeah. As I said. This is what you have decided you can live with. There is no “we.” Its all about the individual. You aren’t disagreeing with me.

Yeah, I get that.

My intention isn’t to moralise. The Federal government, the State governments, local authorities, social media and traditional media, the corporations: the institutions that were supposed to protect you have all, in varying ways, let you down.

And there is very little you, as an individual, can do about that. Those in power have set things up so that they remain in power. For most people the very best you are going to be able to do is do what Ellis suggests: get vaccinated, encourage your friends and family to get vaccinated, and then do your best to live your life to the extent that you can.

But the numbers don’t lie. The pandemic isn’t over. Daily cases are at the same level as in November last year, deaths are at the same level as December last year. You are well on the way to a third surge, and I have no idea if and when it will peak. The idea that we are in a “post-covid” world is a fantasy. People just have become immune to the death and chaos the pandemic is causing, and I can understand that.

New Zealand is a sparsely populated country. It’s highly relevant that it has half the population of a single city in the US when you’re dealing with the spread of a virus.

Not going to happen. Hospitals are already losing staff they can’t do without and that goes for a lot of other businesses.

… explain Hawaii. Explain Fiji. Why didn’t being"sparsely populated" protect them?

What isn’t going to happen?

While low population density slows the spread of a virus, cross-comparisons with other regions of even lower population density (e.g. South Dakota at about 10/mi^2 as compared to NZ’s about 50/mi^2) suggest that the difference between science-based policy and adult-oppositional-defiance-disorder-based policy is a larger factor.

To be fair, though, that “single city” has about one out of every 39 Americans living in it.

As others have pointed out, there are regions in the US that are islands, that are sparsely populated, and so on. All of them have done way worse than New Zealand at controlling COVID.

what are you talking about? Hawaii has had consistently low numbers.

The US is a nation of people who travel whether it’s by car or plane. It was a given that it spread quickly… And nobody is arguing that defiant people aren’t a problem. It’s coming up on 2 years. If they haven’t figured it out then it’s on them and not the the people who got the vaccine.

Hawaii has less than a third of the population of New Zealand yet has had more deaths in the last week than New Zealand has had during the entire pandemic.

And yes, Hawaii is doing good by American standards.

It couldn’t be because it’s a major vacation spot and see’s a lot of people from all over the world.