# It's like that movie with Arnold **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461 "2008-03-23T20:52:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/1 "2008-03-23T20:52:19Z")
Okay, I’m posting this in the pit, because I don’t think it it qualifies as a GD, and it’ll probably trainwreck somewhere along the way. Nashiitashii was showing me an article earlier today about a couple having a baby. All well and good I thought, what’s the catch? Well, turns out that the couple is made up of a F to M transsexual, and a straight woman. Okay, still cool right? Now here’s the twist. The husband is pre-op, but on hormones (looks male with a goatee and all) and had (his?) breasts out. HE IS THE PREGNANT ONE. Normally I pride myself on being open-minded about gender stuff, really I do. I understand homosexual, transsexual, and neuter; as far as a straight male can I suppose. This squicks me out. I don’t know why, but it is just WRONG to me. I don’t bear these people any ill-will but I can’t muster up any sympathy for their “plight” with the fertility doctors who refused to help them. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/2 "2008-03-23T20:57:45Z")
Why don’t you post a link to the article? Not to appear overly critical, but your OP doesn’t give a lot of detail to explain why it’s being considered a “plight”. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/3 "2008-03-23T21:06:44Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] The husband is pre-op, but on hormones (looks male with a goatee and all) and had (his?) breasts out. HE IS THE PREGNANT ONE. [/QUOTE] Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/4 "2008-03-23T21:18:54Z")
[Transgendered male claims to be pregnant](http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=94b1f16c-cfb0-4e73-90ae-b346e4174e78) > [@](#): > > Thomas Beatie’s first-person story appears in a recent issue of The Advocate, a Los Angeles-based newsmagazine for lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered people. > According to the story, Thomas was born a woman but decided to become a transgender male and legally changed his sex to male. He had his breasts surgically removed and started bimonthly testosterone injections, but kept his vagina. > > Now identifying as male, Thomas legally married Nancy, the story says. The pair wanted a biological baby but Nancy was unable to carry a child. So they decided Thomas would. Sorry you’re squicked, OP, but it’s really none of your concern and your squicking is pretty fucking insulting, so get over it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/5 "2008-03-23T21:21:11Z")
If pregnant, not male. If male, no pregnant. Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/6 "2008-03-23T21:23:33Z")
[Link](http://www.advocate.com/issue_story_ektid52664.asp) to the original story. In it, Thomas tells his first-person account of being laughed at by medical staff, refused service based on the religious bigotry of doctors and other indignities they suffered at the hands of so-called “professionals,” not to mention so-called “friends.” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/7 "2008-03-23T21:24:40Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] If pregnant, not male. If male, no pregnant. Anything else? [/QUOTE] Just one other thing. Fuck off, you judgmental prick. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/8 "2008-03-23T21:32:52Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] If pregnant, not male. If male, no [sic] pregnant. Anything else? [/QUOTE] By the simplest biological measure, true. Are you pretending this story doesn’t involve anything more complex than that? Speaking of complications – will he have to suspend the hormone treatments for the term of pregnancy? I’ve no idea what the effect of testerone injections to the mother would be on a fetus. Edited to add: I should have read the article before posting. He stopped the testosterone treatment before trying to get pregnant. Well, I wish the couple luck, but I’m not crazy about people reproducing in any case. I’d recommend adoption – but they might run into ignorance and bigotry there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/9 "2008-03-23T21:37:37Z")
I’m not certain that “transgendered male” is an accurate descriptor, given that Thomas kept his original equipment, but if Thomas want to call himself one… big deal. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/10 "2008-03-23T21:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] Edited to add: I should have read the article before posting. He stopped the testosterone treatment before trying to get pregnant. Well, I wish the couple luck, but I’m not crazy about people reproducing in any case. I’d recommend adoption – but they might run into ignorance and bigotry there, too. [/QUOTE] Okay, so **Acid Lamp** has been trying to clarify why it squicks him out. It’s not that Thomas, the pregnant individual is legally male or FtM; it’s not that he’s married to a woman. It’s more or less the fact that there are certain things that are only supposed to be women’s things (menstruating, childbirth) that someone who has identified with being male so strongly that they’ve had their gender legally changed to male appears to be playing hopscotch with the concept after the fact. “Pregnant man” = “does not compute” to just about all of us. The situation of a pregnant man and the absurdity of it is why they made that stupid Arnold movie (“Junior”?) in the first place. It goes and breaks what are pretty universal taboos. Is it so hard to understand that, internally, people aren’t going to be readily accepting of something that doesn’t happen in nature without some sort of surgical human intervention? I’m also a little bit more confused as to why Thomas wanted to keep his female reproductive organs. If I were as adamant that I were male inside and out, I’d want to get my “innie” surgically turned into an “outie,” regardless of the surgical danger issues. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/11 "2008-03-23T21:48:43Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] I’m not certain that “transgendered male” is an accurate descriptor, given that Thomas kept his original equipment, but if Thomas want to call himself one… big deal. [/QUOTE] A lot of transmen don’t undergo any sort of genital reconstruction, because the results tend not to look very good and the resulting penis is, of course, non-functional without mechanical assistance. I don’t know how commonplace it is for them to keep their internal organs. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/12 "2008-03-23T21:51:14Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Just one other thing. Fuck off, you judgmental prick. [/QUOTE] And the horse upon in which you rode, shit for brains. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/13 "2008-03-23T22:01:01Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] [Transgendered male claims to be pregnant](http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=94b1f16c-cfb0-4e73-90ae-b346e4174e78) Sorry you’re squicked, OP, but it’s really none of your concern and your squicking is pretty fucking insulting, so get over it. [/QUOTE] No dice. By broadcasting it to all and sundry in an attempt one supposes to “shame” the doctors into acquiescing, they have opened themselves up to scrutiny. I have as much right to discuss it as any anyone does now. I’d have no issue with them adopting, or using a surrogate mum. the attitude of the “insert whatever you think might be appropriate here”- to be is just bizarre. " " Nature, Og, whatever got it wrong, I’m a man. I need to legally change my status and undergo painful surgery and expensive treatments to fulfill that lifestyle…-Buuuuut i just Happened to have this spare uterus lying around, and I thought, 'well hell, it’s a shame to let this baby go to waste"… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/14 "2008-03-23T22:20:05Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] And the horse upon in which you rode, shit for brains. [/QUOTE] Ooh, great comeback, dumbfuck. Look again at the board you’re posting to. It’s about _fighting_ ignorance, not spreading the pig-ignorant shit you spouted. Try educating yourself on gender issues before the next time you make a total fool of yourself. > [@Acid Lamp](#): > > I have as much right to discuss it as any anyone does now. No one’s suggesting that you don’t have the right to talk about it all you want, so stop trying to play like anyonne’s suggested otherwise. Seeing as how this guy is already well along in his pregnancy despite the ignorance and bigotry of some of the medical people he consulted, your claim that he’s trying to “shame” someone or other into “acquiescing” to something is unsupported and stupid. Your summation of their situation, reducing it to some “what the hell, knock me up” spur of the moment decision, is further disrespect to this couple. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/15 "2008-03-23T22:33:48Z")
Hey, suppose it was ten years in the future, and a conventional male/female pairing where everyone had the same wedding tackle he/she was born with couldn’t conceive because the woman couldn’t carry the baby to term. If technology had advanced to the point where it was possible to implant the fetus in the man and successfully deliver (by caesarean I would assume) would that still squick you out? I’d regard it as a huge sacrifice for the man and demonstrative of their desire to have children. I’d like people to notice the complete lack of ligatures in the word “caesarean”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/16 "2008-03-23T22:33:58Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] A lot of transmen don’t undergo any sort of genital reconstruction, because the results tend not to look very good and the resulting penis is, of course, non-functional without mechanical assistance. I don’t know how commonplace it is for them to keep their internal organs. [/QUOTE] I 'unno, to me that just suggests that a “transgendered male” is anyone who wants to be called such, i.e. a meaningless label. Is there any terminology distinction to be made between someone who elects to have no genital surgery and one who elects to have significant genital surgery? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/17 "2008-03-23T22:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] No one’s suggesting that you don’t have the right to talk about it all you want… [/QUOTE] You mean no one except for you. > [@you](#): > > Sorry you’re squicked, OP, but it’s really none of your concern and your squicking is pretty fucking insulting, so get over it. …kinda reads to me like you’re suggesting he doesn’t have a right to talk about it all he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/18 "2008-03-23T22:41:55Z")
[QUOTE=Bill Door] Hey, suppose it was ten years in the future, and a conventional male/female pairing where everyone had the same wedding tackle he/she was born with couldn’t conceive because the woman couldn’t carry the baby to term. If technology had advanced to the point where it was possible to implant the fetus in the man and successfully deliver (by caesarean I would assume) would that still squick you out? I’d regard it as a huge sacrifice for the man and demonstrative of their desire to have children. I’d like people to notice the complete lack of ligatures in the word “caesarean”. [/QUOTE] Yes, but not as much as this situation. Considering that there are so many children that need adoption, I’d view that as a completely selfish action, and a rather improper use of technology. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/19 "2008-03-23T22:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=Bill Door] I’d like people to notice the complete lack of ligatures in the word “caesarean”. [/QUOTE] Well, you’re just no fun at all. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461/20 "2008-03-23T22:47:24Z")
Huh. I was betting this thread was about Jingle all the Way. Figured Sinbad attacked some cops with a letterbomb. My mistake. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-like-that-movie-with-arnold/442461.md?page=2)