# It's May Day: Let Us Praise Socialism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532 "2012-05-01T17:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/163 "2012-05-06T18:57:15Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > So you take umbrage with my use of the word socialism, but were fine with the OPs use of the word? I made it clear enough that the OP is talking about social democracy and that social democracy is not socialism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/164 "2012-05-06T19:02:09Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > No it doesn’t. It is praise for socialism. From a very respectable source. How does that **not** belong in the “Let Us Praise Socialism” thread? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/165 "2012-05-06T19:04:47Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > In the end, Russia beat Germany because of the freakin Soviet winter. Want to praise socialism for that too? The Germans still might have won. Russia beat Germany because Stalin, as a totalitarian Communist dictator, had both the authority and the power to move the bulk of the country’s industrial plant east of the occupied zone and build and equip a whole new army from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![lokar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/76d3ee/32.png) [@lokar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokar)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/166 "2012-05-06T22:49:23Z")
You go 'head and praise away, I gotta go to work… 49% of the country’s counting on me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/167 "2012-05-06T22:51:35Z")
> [@lokar](#): > > You go 'head and praise away, I gotta go to work… 49% of the country’s counting on me. No, they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/168 "2012-05-06T22:54:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Also from Orwell’s “The Lion and the Unicorn”: > > I say! If that’s “socialism,” we **could** use some of that in America! Most of those are outdated issues that pertain only to Britain-- or only pertained to Britain some time in the past. The first two are really the only ones that apply to the US, and would be a disaster. No thanks. But I like the idea of an imperial council to represent the coloured peoples. It sounds so quaint! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/169 "2012-05-06T23:03:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I like socialism, I really do. I like the idea of living in a society that is inclusive, that believes all of it’s citizens deserve decent lives. So do I, but I don’t want a society that controls those lives. IMHO socialism needs to be a safety net, not a smothering blanket. We need to let people succeed. We need to let people fail - but we also need to be there to help them pick themselves up afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![lokar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/76d3ee/32.png) [@lokar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokar)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/170 "2012-05-06T23:03:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, they’re not. I write a check, they take a check. How do you figure it? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/171 "2012-05-07T14:02:48Z")
> [@lokar](#): > > How do you figure it? Industrial reserve army and surplus labour. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/172 "2012-05-07T17:21:14Z")
> [@lokar](#): > > I write a check, they take a check. How do you figure it? So, are you unclear on the idea that income tax is not the only form of tax, or are you trying to make a political point while ignoring the nuanced reality of the situation? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/173 "2012-05-07T18:14:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > So do I, but I don’t want a society that controls those lives. IMHO socialism needs to be a safety net, not a smothering blanket. We need to let people succeed. We need to let people fail - but we also need to be there to help them pick themselves up afterwards. We do not disagree then. I am not against the rich being rich. I just want a guy who decides to start his own company to have a place to go to and start over if it fails. Most do, you know. I think we will all be a lot richer ultimately if we do, because that tenth company the guy starts might be Amazon. Or Microsoft. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/174 "2012-05-07T18:16:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > While he is doing that, why don’t you come up with a list of countries that ARE considered ‘socialist’, BG…just to compare and contrast. Because I think that emacknight is basically correct here…we are splitting hairs and looking for various shades of gray. Nearly ALL modern and successful states have elements of socialism in them…as well as elements of capitalism. And the US is no exception. It’s merely where you set the bar, not a matter of there being no bar at all. > > -XT How MANY shades of gray? Fifty? d&r ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/175 "2012-05-07T18:43:24Z")
> [@lokar](#): > > You go 'head and praise away, I gotta go to work… 49% of the country’s counting on me. If you are getting your “facts” from where I think you’re getting them, that’s a lot of very foolish people counting on you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/176 "2012-05-07T18:47:57Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > So you’ve chosen to wait until post 151 of a thread with “socialism” in its very title to bitch about my definition of socialism? > > I don’t particularly care what definition you prefer to use, except so far as I can tell the difference you seem to make between US socialism and European socialism is that one happens in Europe and the other doesn’t. And the one thing you can find that the US lacks is _universal_ health care, while at the same time ignoring the millions of Americans that receive government provided health care. And millions of us don’t. You are talking to someone who has personally had the experienced of holding down a job that offered health insurance, but who could not take it because its cost would have been roughly the same as his take-home wages. Do not talk to me about the wonderful world of American health care. All I had at that time was the emergency room. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/177 "2012-05-07T20:25:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > All I had at that time was the emergency room. And that emergency room, did it have board certified doctors? Highly trained nurses? Advanced medications and state of the art imaging? How far did you have to travel to get to it? Was their a paved road? Have you ever been in the emergency room of another country? Have you ever actually been to another country? You complain about your US income, while being blissfully unaware of the unemployment rate in those European social democracies you praise so highly. You do realize their socialized medicine isn’t free right? It has to be funded through income tax and sales tax. You have this misguided notion that some how being poor in Europe doesn’t suck, I hate to break it to you but being poor sucks regardless of where you are. It sucks in Cuba, in Venezuela, in China. It sucked in Soviet Russia and continues to suck in the Peoples Republic of North Korea. Even as awesome as Canada is, it still sucks being poor in Canada. We have plenty of working poor, struggling to make ends meet, put a roof over their heads and feed their children. I grew up in an area where people were trapped by that social safety net you think you want. Where the economy was crippled by taxes causing those that got heavily subsidized education to flee to the US for work. You have no idea how cheap everything in the US is. Try buying groceries in Canada, or god forbid in Australia where prices were easily three times what they are in the US. My wife and I both left our home town (with universal health care) and moved to the US because that’s where the jobs were. Very few people from either of our graduating classes are still in our home town. Anyone that got educated got out, the rest are there living off the system. So don’t talk to me about the wonderful world of social democracy when I’ve seen the ugliness it can produce. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/178 "2012-05-07T20:30:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I made it clear enough that the OP is talking about social democracy and that social democracy is not socialism. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is praise for socialism. From a very respectable source. How does that **not** belong in the “Let Us Praise Socialism” thread? Uh, so which is it? Praise of socialism or praise of social democracies? You don’t seem to be clear on the matter. Was Orwell talking about socialism or social democracy? Feel free to take your issue up with the OP who is as equally confused on the matter as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532/179 "2012-05-07T20:43:59Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > And that emergency room, did it have board certified doctors? Highly trained nurses? Advanced medications and state of the art imaging? How far did you have to travel to get to it? Was their a paved road? Well I didnt go to the emergency room because I was lucky enough not to have any severe illnesses/accidents. I did not get any medical care at all. Not for the persistent pain in my feet, not for headeaches, not for anything. Hospital emergency rooms are not any good for routine medical care. Doc in the box is better, but very expensive if you have no insurance. As are medicines. Cmon, admit it. You just don’t care about people who don’t have insurance. I have insurance now, but I remember, oh, I remember. America pays MUCH more than other countries for their health insurance, and do not get care that is notably better,[according to a Commonwealth study.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75851.html) Sort of negates your point, does it not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-may-day-let-us-praise-socialism/620532.md?page=8)